Greek Peak Conditions

campgottagopee wrote

I'm right there with ya bro

In no way is it anti skiing. I'd sooner think is more of a been there done that kinda thing and I don't need to do it anymore.

It's kind of funny that the discussion about Greek is more about not skiing than skiing. I've been trying to find a way to ski at Greek this year since I didn't get a season pass, and I really can't find one that makes sense. Later today I"m heading to Syracuse to the Ski Company sale/show up there, planning to buy discount tickets to Song, Gore, and Whiteface. They all have decent ticket offers good any day of the week. 

Greek has a four pack of weekday only tickets for $175, but the same four tickets for the weekend are $275...hardly a deal. Greek pulls the same crap with their 2 for 1 coupons that you can find once in a while (like at the Warren Miller movie night) - only good Monday through Friday. Apparently they're so crowded on weekends they don't need to provide incentive for people to show up...the lines get as long as 10 people deep at peak hours.

Greek is the closest ski area to my house, and this year I'll probably ski there less than anywhere else. Their priority has become non-locals who will stay at the lodge / waterpark.

billyymc wrote

 

It's kind of funny that the discussion about Greek is more about not skiing than skiing.  

I think you may have misunderstood the discussion. It's about me not feeling the pressure to "get after it" like I used to. It's not about Greek Peak nor is it their fault. Just kinda morphed into this discussion when Harv mentioned he wanted to hit Greek so he and I could meet.

I'll always be a GP homer. That's no doubt  

billyymc wrote

  Their priority has become non-locals who will stay at the lodge / waterpark.

It has to be. They need to keep that monster afloat. It was that way when it was initially built. At least now they cater to the locals on some level at the waterpark and hotel. Before they didn't want any of us near there. Remember?

billyymc wrote

Greek has a four pack of weekday only tickets for $175, but the same four tickets for the weekend are $275...hardly a deal. Greek pulls the same crap with their 2 for 1 coupons that you can find once in a while (like at the Warren Miller movie night) - only good Monday through Friday. Apparently they're so crowded on weekends they don't need to provide incentive for people to show up...the lines get as long as 10 people deep at peak hours.

They have never been able to get their pricing right. They believe that if they charge more, they will make more money. I'm surprised they don't charge $500 for a four-pack of tickets.

They've increased their prices on seasonal locker rentals, as well. Prior to the bankruptcy, there was a long waiting list for lockers. Now, with all of the price increases, half of them go un-rented.

Rj1972 wrote

billyymc wrote

Greek has a four pack of weekday only tickets for $175, but the same four tickets for the weekend are $275...hardly a deal. Greek pulls the same crap with their 2 for 1 coupons that you can find once in a while (like at the Warren Miller movie night) - only good Monday through Friday. Apparently they're so crowded on weekends they don't need to provide incentive for people to show up...the lines get as long as 10 people deep at peak hours.

They have never been able to get their pricing right. They believe that if they charge more, they will make more money. I'm surprised they don't charge $500 for a four-pack of tickets.

They've increased their prices on seasonal locker rentals, as well. Prior to the bankruptcy, there was a long waiting list for lockers. Now, with all of the price increases, half of them go un-rented.

Don't you think that if their pricing wasn't working they would change it?

 Just because you don't agree with it doesn't make it wrong, or for that matter not work.

They're still open and making yearly upgrades so something is working.

campgottagopee wrote

I think you may have misunderstood the discussion. It's about me

Man - I thought you were too old to be a millennial.

I understand where you are - I have been dialing back for several years. I take very few risks anymore. No more skiing in no fall zones, no more lone treks in the back country, etc. I have covered a lot of ground skiing and I feel very little need to push the envelope anymore.

BTW - I may have cause to be driving out your way as my eldest may move to Bing. Maybe grab a brew on the drive through if you’ll entertain. Would like meeting you in person.

Wisdom : simply stated , so after several decades of first chair missions, dawn patrol drives in all kinds of weather and schlepping untold ski  shit across iced up lots , it. Is the wise person who says ." I have no more points to prove , i have no more undue risks to take ,NOW i opt for bluebird days and prime conditions ."

So Camp and all the others who have made this your new reality ....tis a wise move .

It aint about quantity. Eff that , relax and enjoy the rest of your life journey . Ergo i have officially RETIRED from downhilling ...my new reality is  XC on bluebird days and opting for the quiet and serenity of the woods .

It has been a great time on the vertical skating rinks , but its time to turn the page !

WD

campgottagopee wrote

Don't you think that if their pricing wasn't working they would change it?

 Just because you don't agree with it doesn't make it wrong, or for that matter not work.

They're still open and making yearly upgrades so something is working.

If their strategy is to have shorter lift lines, they're succeeding. You have to leave the bar to notice.

billyymc wrote

campgottagopee wrote

Don't you think that if their pricing wasn't working they would change it?

 Just because you don't agree with it doesn't make it wrong, or for that matter not work.

They're still open and making yearly upgrades so something is working.

If their strategy is to have shorter lift lines, they're succeeding. You have to leave the bar to notice.

Who are you trying to kid!? There haven't been any lift lines to speak of at GP since the 80's, unless you want to use the free day as an example.

Good grief.

By no means am I saying I agree with their pricing. What I'm saying is it must be working for them, so good on them. Heck, if passes were still 200 bucks I'd have one. Sadly they've priced themselves to the point where it doesn't work for me. Obviously it works for enough people that they aren't going to change it. Again, good for them. I hope they make bazillions!

PeeTex wrote

 

BTW - I may have cause to be driving out your way as my eldest may move to Bing. Maybe grab a brew on the drive through if you’ll entertain. Would like meeting you in person.

Of course!

campgottagopee wrote

PeeTex wrote

 

BTW - I may have cause to be driving out your way as my eldest may move to Bing. Maybe grab a brew on the drive through if you’ll entertain. Would like meeting you in person.

Of course!

Cool

campgottagopee wrote

By no means am I saying I agree with their pricing. What I'm saying is it must be working for them, so good on them. Heck, if passes were still 200 bucks I'd have one. Sadly they've priced themselves to the point where it doesn't work for me. Obviously it works for enough people that they aren't going to change it. Again, good for them. I hope they make bazillions!

Yeah, my point is I don't think it IS working for them. I think they just don't know what else to do.

Pricing is one of the most difficult aspects of managing a business in my opinion. The tendency of a lot of business owners is to focus on their margin on individual transactions when cash flow is some times more important. I’m not saying that’s what is happening here. It’s hard to say what the right answer is.

Yep - their cheapest rate season passes are pretty decent. But everything else the do is priced to fail.

Example - you can buy a 9 pack of tickets on their site right now for $650. Really? How many of that product do they sell a year? I"m guessing between 0 and 5. Not even worth having it up there...what marketing genius came up with that?

Same goes for their current pricing on passes - both ski and the passes that offer skiing and other stuff grouped. Like their current Gladiator Pass at $1,450 - a season ski pass plus a free ticket for a friend when you go. I'll bet a paycheck they sell ZERO of those. So why waste the freakin space and time to even offer it?

At the Ski Company sale/show in Syracuse this weekend you could but the following discount passes: Song Mountain 2 for $90 ($45 per day), Gore and Whiteface 2 for $119 ($60 per day), Snow Ridge 2 for $40 ($20 per day). I bought them all (actually 4 days for Song). All passes good on weekends (I think a few blackout holiday dates for WF/Gore).

What did Greek offer? A pack of 4 WEEKDAY only tickets at $175, and a pack of 4 tickets good anytime (except holidays) for $275 ($69 per day). I bought zero of those, and their table didn't seem all that busy.

Besides their early bird season passes, their pricing is very broken. If it were working for them you'd see faster improvements at the mountain because it would be financially justifiable.

billyymc wrote

 If it were working for them you'd see faster improvements at the mountain because it would be financially justifiable.

Puh_lease tell me you are not serious with this. Prior to the new GP how many years had it been since we saw any ski side improvements. I'd say 10 years? Is that fair?
We've had ski side improvements every single year. I'm more than happy with that. What we have here in CNY is a gem and can't be compared to any of our local competition.

campgottagopee wrote

billyymc wrote

 If it were working for them you'd see faster improvements at the mountain because it would be financially justifiable.

Puh_lease tell me you are not serious with this. Prior to the new GP how many years had it been since we saw any ski side improvements. I'd say 10 years? Is that fair?
We've had ski side improvements every single year. I'm more than happy with that. What we have here in CNY is a gem and can't be compared to any of our local competition.

Drama queen.

Stop looking at it emotionally and think about it rationally.

I never said they haven't made any improvements, and I never said they aren't doing better than the prior owners.

Look at their full range of pricing, over the entire season (not just the early bird pricing), and you'll see products at price points that are just never going to work. Their pricing strategy is to throw a bunch of stuff up and see what lands. It's not based on any particular financial goals showing how each product contributes to those goals.

It's not my business. They can run it how they want. So in that sense you're right - it must be working for them.

But they've had it long enough they should have financial goals, capital expenditure plans going out five years, and a marketing/pricing strategy to support and achieve that. I'm 99% sure it's mostly seat of the pants. If it wasn't, those new lift towers to replace Lift 3 would be installed instead of laying on the ground for two years.

LMAO
Drama? Nah, just the facts bud. Fact is we have improvements and they're paying their taxes. Two things we aren't used to.
I'll take it.

Had it long enough? Common man. It took 50 years to run the place into the ground. It's gonna take some time before they get it where they want it.

campgottagopee wrote

LMAO
Drama? Nah, just the facts bud. Fact is we have improvements and they're paying their taxes. Two things we aren't used to.
I'll take it.

Had it long enough? Common man. It took 50 years to run the place into the ground. It's gonna take some time before they get it where they want it.

You take my comment that their pricing structure is terrible and makes no sense, and doesn't appear to be increasing the number of skiers at Greek, and you turn it into something else. It's not an argument against what I said, it's your usual smokescreen of "They're better than the last guys and the beer is cold so I'm happy."

Get back to me when you can look at their current product offerings and make sense of them. Lots of businesses stay afloat without thriving. It seems that's the current path Greek is on.

At the Ski Company sale in Syracuse this weekend their offerings were not even close in value to what the other hills were offering at the show. Their per ticket price was higher than WF and Gore, and you had to buy four to get the special (WF/Gore you only had to buy 2).

With all the advantages you say Greek has (and I agree they do have some advantages), they should draw twice the number of skiers that Song does. But they don't. Because their pricing is broken.

When it comes to improvements me thinks maybe you should lower your expectations of a privately owned/run ski area in CNY. Especially one that has as many moving parts as what GP has. That hotel, waterpark, and adventure center is a monster of a boat anchor on the ski side, imho. I think we've already proven that the build it and they will come mentality doesn't work here.  

WF and Gore are owned by NYS where nobody is held accountable for profit as  they have a blank checkbook. You say their pricing is broken because you don't like it. I don't like it either but it must work for them for all the reasons I've already mentioned.

Anyway, if you decide to ski GP this year give me a holler. I'll lace em up with ya

Actually Camp I think the waterpark and lodge are the REASON they have as many skiers as they do. Look at the parking lot and at least half the cars are not local (on a weekend). They pull families in from the larger metro areas for the weekends or even a week! Without the waterpark that wouldn't be happening. Doesn't mean it's profitable, but without it they would have a lot fewer visitors.

I don't really have any expectations with regard to improvements. But I think if they want to shoot for an upscale clientele who will spend more $ per visit, they need them.

The pricing isn't broken just because I don't like it. Some of it is just flat out laughable (Spartan Pass), but much of it just isn't in line with competitive offerings. Maybe increasing the number of skier visits isn't a goal for Greek. Perhaps they are good with where they are on that front. If so, their pricing is just fine.

billyymc wrote

Actually Camp I think the waterpark and lodge are the REASON they have as many skiers as they do. Look at the parking lot and at least half the cars are not local (on a weekend). They pull families in from the larger metro areas for the weekends or even a week! Without the waterpark that wouldn't be happening. Doesn't mean it's profitable, but without it they would have a lot fewer visitors.
 

Exactly! That's why it's hurting the ski side. That thing is such a monster that they have to cater to that customer. That has to be their customer now, there's no way around it.

To those folks 700 bucks for a pass is peanuts. That's it??? Hell I'll take 3 of them.