Idea To Keep Whiteface Open Later in the Spring

The patches of snow are not well connected at this point from the look of things from the road.  I would a few might still might still be skiing like ronkon but it dies not look good

MikeK wrote

Is it legal to ski at Whiteface and Gore after they shut the lifts down?

I would think so because it is state owned land, but I've never seen pictures from these mountians, and I have many others in NE.

At any rate, if you want to keep skiing - get some AT bindings and some skins and don't let the Gondi hold you back!

I have done it many times. Lies can be quite nice after closing. Did not do it this year, travel schedule got in the way. In fact I only had a few slide ski days this spring. Have now swapped my hard shell boots for soft hiking boots.

Sno strikes me as the kind of kid that believes that if you can't get a lift to it, it's too much effort to ski it. He has yet to learn that the hike up is just as rewarding as the ski down.  

I have never heard of anyone haven't issues hiking Gore.

PeeTex wrote

...if you can't get a lift to it, it's too much effort to ski it. He has yet to learn that the hike up is just as rewarding as the ski down.

This probably belongs in the XCD thread but...

Not sure many kids his age would feel different.  I started skiing on nordic skis without metal edges.  When we realized how much metal edges would increase our ability to roam we started doing tours that were basically up hill all morning.  We were on waxless (XCD GT) skii and pick a destination that was on top of something. We'd make stop around 1pm, make a fire, tea or bouillion and have lunch. We'd get one down hill run back down to the trailhead. All day up 30 minutes down.

When you dig the up, you're in a really good place.

We skied Gore the first weekend in May last year and there was no one else around.  I asked a notable from Gore(the last weekend it was open this year) if we could mtb up the work road once it is in and ski from there and he said that sounded like a good idea to get more runs in.  We went up tannery to straightbrook(last year) but when we finally got to the Darkside we realized they had built a work road...They do it every year...btw anyone been up there recently?...I heard reports from a week or so ago but I can't get a day with good weather.  I keep promising my dog but I think he has given up on me this year.  But I am not changing my signature just yet...

PS.  A few years back I skied Whiteface after closing and I was definitely not alone.  There had to be 25+ and nobody bothered us then either

PeeTex wrote

Sno strikes me as the kind of kid that believes that if you can't get a lift to it, it's too much effort to ski it. He has yet to learn that the hike up is just as rewarding as the ski down.

That may be a function of age but I was climbing mountains in the ADKs when I was 5 or 6.  I've enjoyed it ever since.

My thought is that if sno is as much a die hard skier as his posts seem to suggest, then he may want to branch out.

It seems to me people hike to ski for many reasons.  One is to find awesome wild snow.  Another is to be away from crowds.  A third is to extend their season.  And some people just like climbing mountains with skis.

Life doesn't revolve around Killington.  Branch out!

Anyway if you hadn't guessed.  This is my answer to keeping Whiteface open later in the spring

PeeTex wrote

Sno strikes me as the kind of kid that believes that if you can't get a lift to it, it's too much effort to ski it. He has yet to learn that the hike up is just as rewarding as the ski down.

If I want to ski, will only do it lift served.  Earning turns at a resort that is closed is dangerous and illegal.

Harvey wrote

We were on waxless (XCD GT) skii and pick a destination that was on top of something. We'd make stop around 1pm, make a fire, tea or bouillion and have lunch. We'd get one down hill run back down to the trailhead. All day up 30 minutes down.

Sounds awesome!  When we going?

PS I find this to be in the true spirit of the Adirondacks - I'd do the same with hiking boots, a canoe, or snowshoes

snoloco wrote

PeeTex wrote

Sno strikes me as the kind of kid that believes that if you can't get a lift to it, it's too much effort to ski it. He has yet to learn that the hike up is just as rewarding as the ski down.

If I want to ski, will only do it lift served.  Earning turns at a resort that is closed is dangerous and illegal.  I asked if I could earn some turns post season at Mountain Creek this spring, but they said that I would be arrested for trespassing if I was caught.  If you get hurt, there isn't any ski patrol to come and sled you down.  It isn't illegal, but is extremely dangerous to ski back country because the trails aren't marked and there could be hazards anywhere.  Once again, no ski patrol.  If it is too late in the spring to ski lift served, then it is probably time to go to Six Flags, take the bike out, or do other warm weather activities.  I am now done for the season skiing, but I will most likely try downhill mountain biking next weekend at Mountain Creek.  Their bike park is already open.  I went to Six Flags last weekend and I will probably do another amusement park visit before long.

Oh my.

Earning your turns at a resort is probably the safest way to do it.  If you are truly worried about it, carry a spot device.  NYS DEC will heli lift you out of any situation, no charge.  I know this for a fact.

Skiing is a risk related activity.  You need to learn to assess risk and determine your behavior based on that.  Wearing a helmet and having ski patrol doesn't make skiing any safer if it means you ski more recklessly because you feel you have a safety net.

Being in the true backcountry requires some skills and preparations.  The only time it truly becomes dangerous is when you take risks that are beyond your skill level or aren't prepared.  True accidents may happen but they are so few and far between.  You go prepared for that stuff.  Learn basic first aid and don't go alone - know that if you do get injured or lost that you need to keep your cool and think your way out.  These days not a lot of people die in the NYS back country unless they commit suicide (sad but true).

Anyway, learning to 'BC' ski at a resort in spring seems like the easiest way to start.  I believe PeeTex when he says it is legal.  The only way it might not be is if it is a privately owned resort.  Gore and Whiteface are owned by NYS.

Also as far as I know they discourage people from hiking and skiing during the operating season except for early in the morning and near closing.  You also need to have a pass.  I read this was a new policy but it was implement so people weren't being run over by snowcats.

snoloco wrote

If I want to ski, will only do it lift served.  Earning turns at a resort that is closed is dangerous and illegal.  I asked if I could earn some turns post season at Mountain Creek this spring, but they said that I would be arrested for trespassing if I was caught.  If you get hurt, there isn't any ski patrol to come and sled you down.  It isn't illegal, but is extremely dangerous to ski back country because the trails aren't marked and there could be hazards anywhere.

Illegal??? In very few places.

Dangerous??? There is always an element of danger. I skied without a helmet. Yes, it's dangerous. I drive xxx amount of miles per year? It's dangerous. I've been known to jaywalk now and then...

All depends of your tolerance level to ... danger.

I think it's the kid's aversion to any type of cardio that spurred his response

I'm worried about the lack of fitness in this generation.  I've coached kids sports and it's amazing how out of shape kids are in general today.  Put all the electronics down and go outside and play

Coach Z wrote

I think it's the kid's aversion to any type of cardio that spurred his response

I'm worried about the lack of fitness in this generation.  I've coached kids sports and it's amazing how out of shape kids are in general today.  Put all the electronics down and go outside and play

Well it certainly isn't as much fun as six flags

Harvey wrote

When you dig the up, you're in a really good place.

I sometimes do dig the up more than the down (depending on what the snow is like), and usually the view from the top is the best. However it's getting so company in the BC is getting hard to find.

MikeK wrote

  I believe PeeTex when he says it is legal.  

Didn't say it was legal. It is Legal on state owned park land. However the laws for ski areas are not as clear. I take a very liberal interpretation of these rules so in my warped world, it's all legal baby.

PeeTex wrote

MikeK wrote

  I believe PeeTex when he says it is legal.  

Didn't say it was legal. It is Legal on state owned park land. However the laws for ski areas are not as clear. I take a very liberal interpretation of these rules so in my warped world, it's all legal baby.

Gore is state owned, so I would interpret that as being legal.  As far as I see, when I go to Gore, I pay to ride the lift.  If I happen to come over from Siamese Ponds and make my way down, even during regular season hours, I wouldn't see it as being illegal.  I guess that would come down to whether they caught you or not.  Only place I recall them checking tickets at Gore is before you get on the lift.

Have you ever run into anybody whilst doing this, say an employee?  I'd ask a ranger but I doubt they'd know the rules for ski areas any better than you or I.

I had some discussion with some other people (on a forum so I don't know how reliable the info was) about the legality of skiing up the toll road on Whiteface and skiing back down the slides (with a little crampon work in between the summit and the slides).  I have no intention of doing that anytime soon but I was told it was not legal.  I looked into Whiteface's policy for 'BC' skiing and it appears it is not during regular season operation.  There was, however, no stipulation about doing this when the lifts are not running.

snoloco wrote

If I want to ski, will only do it lift served.  Earning turns at a resort that is closed is dangerous and illegal.  I asked if I could earn some turns post season at Mountain Creek this spring, but they said that I would be arrested for trespassing if I was caught.  If you get hurt, there isn't any ski patrol to come and sled you down.  It isn't illegal, but is extremely dangerous to ski back country because the trails aren't marked and there could be hazards anywhere.  Once again, no ski patrol.  If it is too late in the spring to ski lift served, then it is probably time to go to Six Flags, take the bike out, or do other warm weather activities.  I am now done for the season skiing, but I will most likely try downhill mountain biking next weekend at Mountain Creek.  Their bike park is already open.  I went to Six Flags last weekend and I will probably do another amusement park visit before long.

You should be concerned with safety and you should be prepared. But once you know what your doing, BC can be as safe if not safer than resort skiing. In the BC you may only get one run in a day. If you hike what you are going to ski you have a good opportunity to make mental notes of what to avoid and where to go. Learn to embrace the thrill of human exertion.  Some of the most thrilling days of my long life have been spent in the back country and many more on the road bike. Turning the pedals in a fast pace line and completing a century in less than 5 hours, now that's a thrill. Parking your ass on an amusement park ride or in front of a video game - that's a sure path to a short skiing career.

MikeK wrote

Gore is state owned, so I would interpret that as being legal.  As far as I see, when I go to Gore, I pay to ride the lift.  If I happen to come over from Siamese Ponds and make my way down, even during regular season hours, I wouldn't see it as being illegal.  I guess that would come down to whether they caught you or not.  Only place I recall them checking tickets at Gore is before you get on the lift.

Have you ever run into anybody whilst doing this, say an employee?  I'd ask a ranger but I doubt they'd know the rules for ski areas any better than you or I.

I had some discussion with some other people (on a forum so I don't know how reliable the info was) about the legality of skiing up the toll road on Whiteface and skiing back down the slides (with a little crampon work in between the summit and the slides).  I have no intention of doing that anytime soon but I was told it was not legal.  I looked into Whiteface's policy for 'BC' skiing and it appears it is not during regular season operation.  There was, however, no stipulation about doing this when the lifts are not running.

I have skied Gore post season with employees of the mountain, but does that make it legal?
I am sure WF would be pesky about skiing the slides no matter how you got there if they were closed. The issue with the slides, just like most slides in the Dacks is avi danger and since they would feel obliged to send patrol out if something went wrong they would want to keep people off. But if you are going to hike the road, why not hike to many of the other places in the Dacks? They make a much nicer hike.

PeeTex wrote

Parking your ass on an amusement park ride

How do you get to the amusement park ride?  Teleport?  I don't think so, you walk.  I do plenty of walking every time I go to Six Flags Great Adventure or any other amusement park.  I don't have a gps, but I am sure that I do more than a couple miles each time.  You also can stand for upwards of an hour in line to ride one.  That sure takes a toll on your legs, but it can't be a bad thing physically.  I am going to try downhill mountain biking next weekend at Mountain Creek.  If I like it, I may get all the gear and do it all summer.  That sure is physical activity, but probably not good enough for everyone here who is ragging on my lifestyle every time I post.

snoloco wrote

 I do plenty of walking every time I go to Six Flags Great Adventure or any other amusement park.  I don't have a gps, but I am sure that I do more than a couple miles each time.  You also can stand for upwards of an hour in line to ride one.  That sure takes a toll on your legs,

OMG!

I'm not at all concerned for the younger generations' cardio or lack thereof, my concerns are much more abstract and deeper rooted.

I'm hope I'm not crossing any boundaries here but it is more the fact that his association (and many people's) of the state parks which are touted in our constitution as 'Forever Wild' is that of developed ski areas and amusement parks.  Now maybe it is mountain biking at another resort (that isn't entirely a generational thing, Mtn biking has been outcast to these areas for other reasons I'd rather not discuss).

My point here is that these type of lessons carry on later in life and our beloved parks, which are full of natural recreational activities beyond the developed areas, are being sold off as mere amusement parks... The Adirondacks and the Catskills have always been about the balance between public and private lands but development, or lack of, has always been a hot topic.  I'm firmly on the side of limiting future growth but I'm OK with the amount that is there now - some more radical than myself would love to see the lifts ripped out of Gore and Whiteface, the toll road tore up and closed and the runs grown over.  I'm not going to fault anyone for taking advantage of developments that are already there, I know I do from time to time.

Anyway, as some of you may know, the state land in the parks continues to grow and the APA continues to put restrictions on development to keep try to keep the balance of the spirit of 'Forever Wild' within the blue lines.  I was lucky enough to be taught to appreciate this at a young age and my feeling for the need to protect and grow the public lands has grown throughout the years.  I can only hope that younger generations can learn to use and steward these public lands responsibly and appreciate them for what they are.  Forming a bond with these areas helps to reinforce that - so getting out doing some kind of responsible recreation beyond the lifts, amusement parks, shops and cafes is critical to the future of our land.

I can't help but feel a bit disappointed when people associate the Adirondacks or Catskills with things like motor sports (i.e. water skiing, jet skiing or power boating) or resort developments (i.e. golf course, ski resorts, hotels and spas, etc.).  To me that clearly misses the 'Forever Wild' spirit.

snoloco wrote

PeeTex wrote

Parking your ass on an amusement park ride

  I don't think so, you walk.  I do plenty of walking every time I go to Six Flags Great Adventure or any other amusement park.  I don't have a gps, but I am sure that I do more than a couple miles each time.  You also can stand for upwards of an hour in line to ride one.  That sure takes a toll on your legs, but it can't be a bad thing physically.

i dont recall amusement parks as being the land of the fit