Lift Ticket Prices for 14-15

The three I listed above that don't do an exclusive first tracks that you have to be a passholder for or pay extra open early on weekends for everyone.  Killington opens at 8am on weekends and I believe Okemo opens at 8 every day.  Stowe opens the Fourrunner Quad at 7:30am every day for the earliest opening for anyone in the east.

snoloco wrote

Why does everyone complain about Southern Vermont mountains   Some people who have bashed Southern Vermont have made positive trip reports from Stowe.

really ?

This thread really is not very interesting.

Maybe my life is just simple, or boring. In the winter I wake up drive to the mountain and ski. All this stuff just sounds crazy. My parents are in their late 60's, and ski everyday with their friends. Naturally, They like the fresh cord, and so do all their old friends as well. I doubt they care enough to pay for it.

Some people take things way too seriously, which is all good, I just never really have worried or given much thought to all these issues, maybe I should. Right now I'm wondering how many crazy people I've skied with.

This year I think I may just start analyzing my skiing in terms of lift rides, relative comfort, versus dollars spent so I can confirm with myself whether it's all worth it.

Fuck me.

Some people are into the business aspect of the ski industry like me.  Unlike many people on here, I actually like to know what went into getting me on the slopes and how the resorts run their business.  I might actually try to work in management of a ski area or resort company in the future.  You can't just be an 80+ day a year skier to get into management at a ski area, you need to have business knowledge as well.  Even small mom and pop ski areas like Plattekill, Magic, etc. are still businesses.  While the people who run them might be more into the ski experience and less into the profit margins than say, the CEO of Vail Resorts, they still need business knowledge and they still need to make money.   If they didn't, your beloved mom and pop ski hill will end up on nelsap.org.  It is the worst nightmare of any owner of any ski area to end up listed on that site.  If skiing weren't a business that a company can make money off of, you wouldn't be riding a lift to ski at a ski area.  There would simply be no incentive to build a ski area.  All the skiing would be hike to backcountry which doesn't work without natural snow.  You can complain about man made snow and groomers all you want, but if you get a crappy winter like 11-12 with no snow and lots of r*in, you will be grateful for it.  I bet that 90% of the fist pounding curmudgeons that say that "I WOULD RATHER NOT SKI AT ALL THAN SKI ON GROOMERS" would still end up on groomers if there was no natural snow and no other choice.

I'm pleasantly surprised that the pay for first tracks concept hasn't taken off at more areas. From a business perspective, it is a decent concept. I am not sure the backlash against a resort doing so is going to be more than the increase in revenue.

Thinking about a powder day, three untracked runs without competition for a premium would certainly be worth an up charge for most skiers. If the resort gets backlash and people avoiding the mountain, the powder becomes even better for those that stick around. But too much of a good thing would lead the premium to not be worth it if there is a line. Economics takes care of that and price rises accordingly.

The idea makes me want to hurl, though. One great thing about skiing is those who want the goods the most, get the goods. If that means standing in line for 40 minutes in blowing snow and freezing wind for first chair, you get your ass out there, bundle up, and earn it. Or you get your ass up there and earn it before the lift even opens.

TomCat wrote

So it is OK to charge extra to ski on a weekend (or holiday) but not to ski early?

False equivalency. The cost of a day ticket is fixed for all skiers on a given day. Charging to ski early is an add on.

Since skiers appreciate skiing the best conditions (which is almost always earlier in the day) before the surface conditions deteriorate, paying extra for early turns not only provides a premium surface, but also at the same time makes surface conditions worse for every other skier choosing not to support the up charge business model. So it isn't just a positive benefit add on for those that can afford it and want to pay it, but it is also a penalty for those that don't.

That is very different than charging everyone a premium price based on demand and giving everyone equal access and opportunity to the product during its best time.

All that said, most resorts have gone away from weekend pricing any ways. And I agree with Harv's response.

Disclaimer I could only get through the first the sentences. Well thought out kid. You certainly could have a career in the ski industry... And that's awesome I like your enthusiasm...

I don't really buy single day tickets and wasn't aware that weekend pricing was going away. I think Gore actually added Thurs/Fri to the weekend so that supports what you are saying.

When you consider how few untracked runs I get in a season with everything I go through (time/energy/money) to ski,  paying extra to get first tracks probably makes sense to me. It would never happen, but if they'd do it on a daily ticket  (+$50 for a early hour) I'd probably go for it.

The problem with the early pass for me is... we only have one car in the mountains and don't live slopeside. Do I lay out the extra cash for all three passes? And how the hell do I get the girls up even earlier?  That would be tough.

snoloco wrote

Even small mom and pop ski areas like Plattekill, Magic, etc. are still businesses.  While the people who run them might be more into the ski experience and less into the profit margins than say, the CEO of Vail Resorts...

Got to disagree with this. If Vail has three crappy years, how bad is it going to hurt the CEO of Vail personally?  Even if he gets fired I bet he's rich for the rest of his life.  I'd say Laszlo has more at stake.

snoloco wrote

I bet that 90% of the fist pounding curmudgeons that say that "I WOULD RATHER NOT SKI AT ALL THAN SKI ON GROOMERS" would still end up on groomers if there was no natural snow and no other choice.

I don't hear too many people say that.  Skimore and his buddies live that like a religion.  They only ski quality snow and they get their share of days for sure.  

But lets face it Thanksgiving is usually pretty crappy, but often brings out a good crowd. Sometimes Christmas too.  Schlubs like me ski when they can get time off and hope the snow is good.  I get maybe 5 opportunistic days a year - see the snow and chase it.  I want more days than that even it it means skiing under the guns or whatever.

Harvey wrote

I'd say Laszlo has more at stake.

Could be true.

Benny Profane wrote

It probably hasn't taken hold too much because skiers in general are from the upper classes, so I'm guessing most wouldn't stand for it. The working class skier is rare.

What is your definition of "skier"?? Everyone I ski with is one working SOB, and we're not upper class.

riverc0il wrote

I'm pleasantly surprised that the pay for first tracks concept hasn't taken off at more areas. From a business perspective, it is a decent concept. I am not sure the backlash against a resort doing so is going to be more than the increase in revenue.

I'm curious to see how it works out at Sugarbush this year.  They are limiting the $500 early-ups to 500 passholders.  If that sells out, that's a quarter million additional revenue to the mountain with essentially no incremental cost.  But my guess is that they will encounter some pretty strong resistance to the $500 price point as well as some significant backlash from the rest of their skier base.

riverc0il wrote

The idea makes me want to hurl, though. One great thing about skiing is those who want the goods the most, get the goods. If that means standing in line for 40 minutes in blowing snow and freezing wind for first chair, you get your ass out there, bundle up, and earn it. Or you get your ass up there and earn it before the lift even opens.

Exactly.  First tracks used to be (and still mostly is) limited primarily by ambition.  Now, like so many things in life, it becomes simply a matter of opening up your wallet.  That's the part that I think really sucks.  

Adk Jeff wrote

I'm curious to see how it works out at Sugarbush this year.  They are limiting the $500 early-ups to 500 passholders.  If that sells out, that's a quarter million additional revenue to the mountain with essentially no incremental cost.  But my guess is that they will encounter some pretty strong resistance to the $500 price point as well as some significant backlash from the rest of their skier base.

Sugarbush's skier base is relatively well to do. I suspect they can easily talk 500 well to do NYC second home owners into first tracks bragging rights that will rarely be used. There is cost in that they need to staff and run the lifts earlier, which averaged out over a full season will bring down the total revenue but still a significant chunk of change even after expenses.

I am not very familiar with this program but it certainly sounds like yet another reason of many I already have to dislike Sugarbush.

campgottagopee wrote

Benny Profane wrote

It probably hasn't taken hold too much because skiers in general are from the upper classes, so I'm guessing most wouldn't stand for it. The working class skier is rare.

What is your definition of "skier"?? Everyone I ski with is one working SOB, and we're not upper class.

Well, if you're white and ski a lot, you're upper class, for sure. If you work a lot and hard, you really aren't much of a skier, know what I mean?

Benny Profane wrote

campgottagopee wrote

Benny Profane wrote

It probably hasn't taken hold too much because skiers in general are from the upper classes, so I'm guessing most wouldn't stand for it. The working class skier is rare.

What is your definition of "skier"?? Everyone I ski with is one working SOB, and we're not upper class.

Well, if you're white and ski a lot, you're upper class, for sure. If you work a lot and hard, you really aren't much of a skier, know what I mean?

Not really. I'm white, and ski a minimum of twice a week, I work hard and play even harder and so do the guys I ski with. I thought you maybe you were reffering to the "vacation skier", but I guess you weren't. Maybe we just roll with diff peeps.....that's gotta be it

snoloco wrote

  I bet that 90% of the fist pounding curmudgeons that say that "I WOULD RATHER NOT SKI AT ALL THAN SKI ON GROOMERS" would still end up on groomers if there was no natural snow and no other choice.

Maybe if you're using Mtn crick as a reference point. Go out to an area like SLC and 90% of those people don't ski unless it snows 6"

snoloco wrote

Hunter:  Not listed yet
Plattekill:  Not listed yet
Killington:  Not listed yet

Still nothing from Hunter.

Plattekill $58
Killington $92

campgottagopee wrote

Benny Profane wrote

campgottagopee wrote

Benny Profane wrote

It probably hasn't taken hold too much because skiers in general are from the upper classes, so I'm guessing most wouldn't stand for it. The working class skier is rare.

What is your definition of "skier"?? Everyone I ski with is one working SOB, and we're not upper class.

Well, if you're white and ski a lot, you're upper class, for sure. If you work a lot and hard, you really aren't much of a skier, know what I mean?

Not really. I'm white, and ski a minimum of twice a week, I work hard and play even harder and so do the guys I ski with. I thought you maybe you were reffering to the "vacation skier", but I guess you weren't. Maybe we just roll with diff peeps.....that's gotta be it

Heh, well, on second thought, "white skier" is a tad redundant, so we'll drop race as an issue. But, man, if you can ski a minimum of two days a week in today's world, sorry, but you are relatively upper class, compared to the average person who is happy to have a job, and probably two jobs, these days. By working class, I mean somebody who makes little and works six days a week.
Face it, skiing is for at least the upper 5%, and you may be surprised who compromises that group.

BTW, 65 dollar Killington tickets are available at times through a few marketing firms. I have one available to me at work.

Benny Profane wrote

Heh, well, on second thought, "white skier" is a tad redundant, so we'll drop race as an issue. But, man, if you can ski a minimum of two days a week in today's world, sorry, but you are relatively upper class, compared to the average person who is happy to have a job, and probably two jobs, these days. By working class, I mean somebody who makes little and works six days a week.
Face it, skiing is for at least the upper 5%, and you may be surprised who compromises that group.

Wow.

Keep digging, buddy, I'm sure you'll find a way out of this ridiculous generalization eventually.

People who live closer to ski mtns don't need to be upper class to ski a lot. It costs more for flatlanders to get their ski on.