Next Upgrades at NY Ski Areas

The thing that you may not know RA is that the amount of terrain addition and lift upgrades over the last 15 years is astonishing, especially when you consider that it is being done with public funding by an organization that is also responsible for two other ski areas.  Three new high speed lifts in 15 years. Who else has had that? Huge terrain additions. Hundreds of new high E snowguns. A beautiful new lodge. What else?

Sno has said a bazillion times that none of this should be done incrementally if you can't add terrain without snowmaking, don't add it.  The problem is that you take public funding when you get it.  Sorry governor, no snowmaking in the package? Then forget it we don't want this:

http://forum.nyskiblog.com/North-Creek-Ski-Bowl-NY-2-27-11-td2591959.html

or this:



There are many here who believe that terrain is valuable as is.  We all know the ski bowl will get snowmaking eventually. Until then we'll continue enjoy it.  Seems very narrow minded to say I'll only take your free money on my terms. And to say it over and over and over. We get it.

There is a drawing for a lift from town.  I think it will happen eventually.  But it doesn't make sense to do it when one of your summit chairs is ancient, and Belle and WF need tons of stuff too.

Reality is all of that stuff will be "good" for Gore.  It will eventually be packed to the gills every weekend like Stratton. But we are humans, so we naturally and selfishly want what is best for us.  A sweet mountain where we roam free, skiing natural snow glades and riding uncrowded lifts.

Like RA, I spend an inordinate amount of time in a dream state while looking at Google maps. As an extra, added nerdity, my dreaming also involves things like transit (preferably, rail transit) connections. (All three ORDA mountains have the potential for rail access:  severed currently and threatened existentially by insane rail trail advocates in the case of Belleayre, out-of-service and somewhat distant [and also mildly under threat from the same rail trailers] for Whiteface, and perfect [but barely running] for Gore.) Gore and North Creek have the potential to become a much more accessible, concentrated, and sustainable Whiteface and Lake Placid pairing.

Harvey wrote

There is a drawing for a lift from town.  I think it will happen eventually.  But it doesn't make sense to do it when one of your summit chairs is ancient, and Belle and WF need tons of stuff too.

Here is a PDF of the map (available somewhere else on nyskiblog too, I think) you mention, showing a (chair) connection from the Ski Bowl to the base. To my mind, that connection can't come soon enough for the purposes of developing the town together with Gore as a "destination"; indeed, the connection would ideally—in dream land—come from the town, creating something like a Telluride situation. (Not saying it has to be free and gold plated, just situated closer to or in town.)

But, yes, if we're drawing up a big list of ORDA improvements, snowmaking at the Bowl goes before a the lift from town, and a host of other improvements go before those.

More of this build it and they will come. You do know a lot of this exists more conveniently located near some of the major populous. These places get twice and some 3 times as much snow. You rambling about more blue runs at Gore which the place is already full of. The Snobowl is quite low in elevation. Bottom line is that in most years there's better snow to ski on elsewhere that's as or more convenient for alot

Powderchaser wrote

This is the product of getting everything you want at all times.  So spoiled that you believe Gore should treat the ski area like your parents treat you.  Unfortunately they have limited funds and it takes time to allocate them.  They can't just do it all at once.  Christmas break is not midseason.  There is no expectation for full coverage.  Only from brats who want it all on their family vacation despite mother nature's ability to more often than not, not cooperative this early in the season.

Maybe it’s a product of stating reasons for his opinions in a clear and consistent way every time he posts.  I’m curious, why do you have to resort to calling him a brat because you disagree with him? Why not refute his viewpoints by stating reasons for your own without the insults?

Highpeaksdrifter wrote

Powderchaser wrote

This is the product of getting everything you want at all times.  So spoiled that you believe Gore should treat the ski area like your parents treat you.  Unfortunately they have limited funds and it takes time to allocate them.  They can't just do it all at once.  Christmas break is not midseason.  There is no expectation for full coverage.  Only from brats who want it all on their family vacation despite mother nature's ability to more often than not, not cooperative this early in the season.

Maybe it’s a product of stating reasons for his opinions in a clear and consistent way every time he posts.  I’m curious, why do you have to resort to calling him a brat because you disagree with him? Why not refute his viewpoints by stating reasons for your own without the insults?

I don't necessarily disagree with everything he says, that's why I'm not refuting anything.  It's more of his attitude of wanting everything now and by Christmas break that makes him come across as a spoiled brat.  Do you disagree with that?

POWDERCHASER:  Why don't you look at the snow reports from all other ski areas during Christmas week.  All places EXCEPT Whiteface and Gore have all lifts open typically with many trails off of them.  I don't think it's spoiled to not want to be crammed onto Gore's slow gondola with a full holiday crowd while the Ski Bowl and Burnt Ridge lifts rattle in the wind.  Why is is spoiled if all other ski areas can open all their lifts by 12/26?

RA:  Losing some glades to create more trails on a section that is in dire need of more is a good decision.  You might lose a couple old curmudgeons over it, but the extra people you'd get after expanding would more than make up for it.  

Harvey:  Remember when Les Otten built The Canyons?  To pull that off, he destroyed all his eastern mountains, his company, and his reputation.  ORDA has overreached to build all the new trails and lifts in the past 15 years.  They did it all on the cheap instead of running other ski areas into the ground.  What good is terrain if it can't open?

Bottom line:  Next time we have a low snow year and Gore fails to open all their terrain, you'll all be apologizing to me and want more snowmaking.

Highpeaksdrifter wrote

Maybe it’s a product of stating reasons for his opinions in a clear and consistent way every time he posts.  I’m curious, why do you have to resort to calling him a brat because you disagree with him? Why not refute his viewpoints by stating reasons for your own without the insults?

Sno's viewpoint has no basis in experience or reality. He's read a bunch of stuff about the ski industry, memorized a bunch of facts about lifts and other things, colored that all with his own preferences and biases, and thinks that makes him an expert on how to make "xzy" resort perfect.

Without real world constraints I'd have a leprechaun with a pot of gold and a Guinness at the bottom of every run telling me how awesome I  just skied and giving me a lift back the top on a rainbow.

Sometimes when we think we know the most, is when we should shut up and listen.

billyymc wrote

 

Without real world constraints I'd have a leprechaun with a pot of gold and a Guinness at the bottom of every run telling me how awesome I  just skied and giving me a lift back the top on a rainbow.

 

I'm in on that deal

billyymc wrote

Without real world constraints I'd have a bikini girl with a trust fund and a Makers mark at the bottom of every run telling me how awesome I just skied and giving me a massage

Fixed it for you

There is a place for people like you.  It's called Stratton and Okemo.

billyymc wrote

I'm more of a Stowe/Killington person, but Stratton and Mount Snow are great too.  

The first time I skied Gore was Christmas week of 2005.  It was fully open then.  The mistake was to build Burnt Ridge and the Ski Bowl and not increase snowmaking capacity.  

The only other time I've been there around Christmas was in 12-13 when the place was fully open.  It was packed to the gills.  I couldn't imagine the carnage if multiple lifts were closed.  

I can relatively easily get to Gore for a day trip.  However, I usually stick to Hunter because they are fully open for Christmas.  The snow is better too.  Till Gore can be fully open (all lifts running), by 12/26.  My dad will be more than happy to keep his $$$ at Hunter.  That's over $100 dollars in lift tickets that they don't get.  You can call my dad super rich and me spoiled and rich, but there are many families out there who are larger and will spend even more money.  Lose the business of a family of 5 and there goes over 400 dollars of revenue in tickets alone.  Factor in food and other expenses and that's probably over 500 dollars.

Does anyone else wonder if he is posting in the middle of his classes?  Last time he got caught doing that his internet privileges were taken away for about two weeks.
Son you have a lot of great idea's, that is the easy part.  Figure out how to pay for all this stuff and let us know.  If you could do that  we would think as much of you as you think of yourself.  

PAY ATTENTION TO THE TEACHER!! AND GET OFF THIS BOARD.

Home schooled??

Hold up now! I'm in no way judging the management at Gore or expect anything from them......I don't even ski there!

I was just goofing of in the dorky way I do thinking hypothetically in my imaginary what if world. For some reason I fantasize about running a ski area, having unlimited funds, and making it the best possible product possible. I think Loco does something similar. That's as far as that goes. I'm not saying I agree with his attitude or comments regarding the Gore management.

And for the record, even though I do this for entertainment in reality I would prefer to ski at the current place that you enjoy, I think we like the same sort of experience. The imaginary ski area in my mind wouldn't be my favorite place to ski, it's just the one that would be an all around good mountain and a $ maker.

I do the same when I look at the little mountains too but I imagine creating the coolest mom and pop op. You know, surface lifts and access to some cool back country skiing. A bad ass pub too.

I don't really like the big resort experience any longer, it's not my thing but I have been hanging around skiing enough and paying attention that I think I know how to create a bad ass ski area....or at least I imagine I do!

snoloco wrote

I'm more of a Stowe/Killington person, but Stratton and Mount Snow are great too.  

The first time I skied Gore was Christmas week of 2005.  It was fully open then.  The mistake was to build Burnt Ridge and the Ski Bowl and not increase snowmaking capacity.  

The only other time I've been there around Christmas was in 12-13 when the place was fully open.  It was packed to the gills.  I couldn't imagine the carnage if multiple lifts were closed.  

I can relatively easily get to Gore for a day trip.  However, I usually stick to Hunter because they are fully open for Christmas.  The snow is better too.  Till Gore can be fully open (all lifts running), by 12/26.  My dad will be more than happy to keep his $$$ at Hunter.  That's over $100 dollars in lift tickets that they don't get.  You can call my dad super rich and me spoiled and rich, but there are many families out there who are larger and will spend even more money.  Lose the business of a family of 5 and there goes over 400 dollars of revenue in tickets alone.  Factor in food and other expenses and that's probably over 500 dollars.

So you are saying don't expand until it can be covered by snowmaking? Why not enjoy the new terrain when the natural snow allows and know that in the future when it's possible it will be added? No good? So instead of having new terrain they should just wait?

Seems a little silly.

I have a seven year old daughter and one of my favorite things to do when she is acting like a spoiled kid is I ask her if she has ever heard that song by the Rolling Stones and then I start singing......You can't always get what you want

RA... I wasn't calling you out in any way. I just figured you might not know that the speed at which Gore is getting new infrastructure is quite amazing, IMO.

My beef with Sno is that he is willing to pass up new terrain, if it doesn't get snowmaking at the same time.  You take money when offered.  Telling the state that you don't want Burnt Ridge because they aren't giving you enough cash to "finish the job" is just nuts. IMO.  It's not just waiting, it's quite likely forgoing the new terrain.

All of Gore was added without snowmaking at the start. ALL of it. With that kind thinking there would be no lift-served skiing at Gore.

campgottagopee wrote

Home schooled??

No, lunch period.

snoloco wrote

campgottagopee wrote

Home schooled??

No, lunch period.

Bean Feast?