ORDA's operating loss increases year over year

Something interesting from the Adirondack Daily Enterprise.  Year to date over same period last year, ORDA's losses have increased even though their revenues have also increased.

http://www.adirondackdailyenterprise.com/page/content.detail/id/540630/ORDA-operating-loss-swells-despite-revenue-gains.html?nav=5008

They'll never " post " self sufficiency. Kinda odd they left this part out when they tallied up......

" The loss doesn't take into account the state and town of North Elba appropriations the authority receives, which total $4.9 million "

Aussie told you this would happen

Bell has never made money and never will

Why is it that LP chips into the orda kitty but the other areas don't.  If what ever Podunk Town or county that Bell is in wants to keep this loser operating they need to put on their big boy pants and pony up the $1.9 million that their little hill lost.  

ausable skier wrote

Aussie told you this would happen

Bell has never made money and never will

Why is it that LP chips into the orda kitty but the other areas don't.  If what ever Podunk Town or county that Bell is in wants to keep this loser operating they need to put on their big boy pants and pony up the $1.9 million that their little hill lost.

And the Whiteface people aren't union? That's the problem, you know. Lifties with pensions. Like that exists anywhere else in the industry.

ausable skier wrote

Aussie told you this would happen

Bell has never made money and never will

Why is it that LP chips into the orda kitty but the other areas don't.  If what ever Podunk Town or county that Bell is in wants to keep this loser operating they need to put on their big boy pants and pony up the $1.9 million that their little hill lost.

North Elba chips in to maintain the Olympic venues within North Elba (some it still owns) that ORDA operates. If Johnsburg (Gore) and Shandaken (Belleayre) owned the ski areas then they would have been asked to contribute to ORDA. As we all know, NYS owned and owns the ski areas.

You can't believe or trust half of what ORDA says when it comes to money. In the report the article is about ORDA left out a very substantial amount of income. Deceitful.

On the pension item, are we sure they get them ? Maybe they do. If so, many (all?) of the State's various agencies have their pension costs paid directly by the legislature and not out of that agency's budget.  
 

Before the Belleayre naysayers get all worked up, keep in mind that these are results through November 1.  Those 7 months (ORDA's fiscal year starts April 1) of course are the period where losses are the greatest since there's minimal revenue.  Better to wait until the full year results are in.  Belleayre operated at a loss under DEC, if Belle's operating loss is reduced under ORDA, we're all (as NYS taxpayers) better off, no?

ausable skier wrote

Aussie told you this would happen. Bell has never made money and never will.

You lose sleep every night thinking about this, don't you?

Benny Profane wrote

And the Whiteface people aren't union? That's the problem, you know. Lifties with pensions. Like that exists anywhere else in the industry.

Yeah, those lifties are getting rich alright.  Your statement is a joke. I try to keep my mouth shut about most of the uninformed idiotic BS I read in ski forums, but sometimes I can't. I can't stand people like you who don't want to see anyone else make a living wage. I'd like to see you try and live on what 95% of employees at ORDA ski areas make. Lifities are seasonal employees, a few work summer and fall on gondi rides. Over half the lifities working at WF this season are new employees. Who knows how many will return next season let alone work enough time to collect a pension. So since penisons are based on your top 3 earning years (lets not forget you need 12 months of service to equal 1 pension year)...the very small percentage who actually work enough years to collect a pension don't get a hell of alot from it since they don't make a hell of alot. You too much Benny...rant over.

Ha!  I was just going to respond HPD!  But you pretty much said it!

Where is there any objective information that says that WF or Gore make a profit?

And yea, to hell with those lifties getting rich on the taxpayer dime. 4 free ski runs a day should be plenty of compensation.

Well, my "Lifties with pensions" may have been over the top, but I was just trying to illustrate that NY star basically creates workfare jobs in depressed areas with their skiing budget. Why do you think Cuomo brought Bellayre into the fold. Money buys votes. Like there's any other jobs around that place, especially in the winter. And no Vermont ski area keeps their winter employees around for the summer unless they need them. NY loves to give them year round jobs, it seems. Again, it's called workfare. And the taxpayer is paying for it.

Benny Profane wrote

Why do you think Cuomo brought Bellayre into the fold. Money buys votes. Like there's any other jobs around that place, especially in the winter. And no Vermont ski area keeps their winter employees around for the summer unless they need them. NY loves to give them year round jobs, it seems. Again, it's called workfare. And the taxpayer is paying for it.

Actually this situation got better (from a taxpayer perspective) when ORDA took over operation of Belle.  Payscale was reduced, some year-round jobs were reduced to seasonal, other positions were cut entirely.  Benny, your statement may have applied to Belle under DEC, but not Belle under ORDA.

Belle wouldn't exist if it wasn't for my tax dollars.

Furcryingoutloud, there's a union. A union.

Adk Jeff wrote

Benny Profane wrote

Why do you think Cuomo brought Bellayre into the fold. Money buys votes. Like there's any other jobs around that place, especially in the winter. And no Vermont ski area keeps their winter employees around for the summer unless they need them. NY loves to give them year round jobs, it seems. Again, it's called workfare. And the taxpayer is paying for it.

Actually this situation got better (from a taxpayer perspective) when ORDA took over operation of Belle.  Payscale was reduced, some year-round jobs were reduced to seasonal, other positions were cut entirely.  Benny, your statement may have applied to Belle under DEC, but not Belle under ORDA.

Take Cover Jeff !

Benny Profane wrote

Well, my "Lifties with pensions" may have been over the top,

Does - may be a little over the top mean...I know what I typed was pure BS, but I hit Post Message anyway.

Benny Profane wrote

 NY loves to give them year round jobs, it seems. Again, it's called workfare. And the taxpayer is paying for it.

Again you are wrong. The vast majority of hourly employees are laid off when ski season is over. Some are rehired in the summer, then laid off again. How would you like to live like that? It ain't easy gettin by for most people in the ADKS so you can stick your workfare take. Just shut up, you don't know what you are talking about and you keep proving it.

Are you a liftie?

I wish there was a ski instructor union...

Benny Profane wrote

Well, my "Lifties with pensions" may have been over the top, but I was just trying to illustrate that NY star basically creates workfare jobs in depressed areas with their skiing budget. Why do you think Cuomo brought Bellayre into the fold. Money buys votes. Like there's any other jobs around that place, especially in the winter. And no Vermont ski area keeps their winter employees around for the summer unless they need them. NY loves to give them year round jobs, it seems. Again, it's called workfare. And the taxpayer is paying for it.

NYS cannot sell or lease Belleayre. It is a valuable asset. Should NYS just close Belleayre? When the DEC was running Belleayre there were too many full time employees. This is not the case anymore. The best place for it was ORDA. It was not about votes.

If the people who live in the Catskills and the Adirondacks can't find work then NYS gets to spend more money on unemployment, welfare, etc. Most of the people I have met who live in the Park love the lifestyle and are not getting rich in the tourist business.

Benny Profane wrote

Are you a liftie?

No...Are you a Giant of Wall Street?