ORDA seems to be still making snow?

Ethan Snow wrote

A proper GM with the proper business plan should feel the same way.

Sorry - it doesn't work that way. A business plan is not about how not to make money. There is nothing wrong with having a hobby and nothing wrong with investing in an education which does not have to be gained from classes but rather from personal experience. However, don't be confused, this is not a business plan. I bet the guy who owns Hickory is using it as a bit write off so profitability is not a major issue. I would not expect the GM of any privately owned ski area would last long at all if they were not focused on turning a profit year over year, and on a year like this one - keeping looses at a bare minimum.

Enjoy your hobby, learn as much as you can about the business and someday hopefully you will get all your investment back and then some.

Ethan

I hope you are going to take some business classes.  I admire your passion for the ski biz but you have a lot lot to learn about the biz part.

Private owner operators like Platty may have the luxury of having 5 year plan.  Note Laz said he has no debt.  The publicly traded ski areas have to have a month to month and at longest a quarterly focus becuase that is how that world works.  privately held areas that owe money or have a private equity investors have at longest a ski season outlook.  Every so often a state run area gets in a problem due to a state budget crunch or some political bs and then a really unprofitable season beacons a serious liability.  

As a GM if you over blow snow in a crappy year you may not be around to worry about pass holders re upping next year.  

I never said that a proper GM should not care about making money. I just said they shouldn't be in it SIMPLY for the money. they have to have a passion for the sport. Although, I'm sure if Laz at Plattekill was having difficulty putting food on his table at home, he wouldn't be making snow. I also never said that I had a business plan. I just spend money and that's it. I said that a real GM should have a 5 year plan and not a 1 year plan.

Coach Z wrote

As a GM if you over blow snow in a crappy year you may not be around to worry about pass holders re upping next year.

So you didn't want to ski this year?

It's like being a new NFL coach
You can have a 3 to 5 year plan but if you lose too much you won't be around see year 3 and as Laz said one year in 5 really sucks.
In a Vail run resort have a really unprofitable December or February as a GM and you won't be around to see April

snoloco wrote

So you didn't want to ski this year?

It's not whether or not you or I want to ski this year, rather it's about whether that favorite ski area is a around to see yet another season and we can ski it next year (and the years after). A few years of mismanagement and the lifts won't turn anymore.

I agree with you there. That would be the case with any corporate business. But they are backed by much larger amounts of money while private areas are not. I was mainly referring to private areas. I still think March snowmaking should be in the plan, and then if you don't have to then you are doing good.

Besides, If a place like Windham can afford to blow up half of their parking lot to build a complex for 20 rich people to stay, don't you think they have a little extra cash to play around with n the snowmaking department? No?

I just don't understand why everyone seems so disappointed that ski areas are still making snow. I'm pretty sure that most of these areas know what they're doing even if it hurts a little.

snoloco wrote

Coach Z wrote

As a GM if you over blow snow in a crappy year you may not be around to worry about pass holders re upping next year.

So you didn't want to ski this year?

running a big resort is a business worth $50+ million.  It has nothing to do with you or I having a good time skiing.  Its make money or else.

PeeTex wrote

snoloco wrote

So you didn't want to ski this year?

It's not whether or not you or I want to ski this year, rather it's about whether that favorite ski area is a around to see yet another season and we can ski it next year (and the years after). A few years of mismanagement and the lifts won't turn anymore.

Any decent ski area should be able to withstand a few bad years without going under or pulling the plug for a season (which you and Z seem to want).  In case you didn't notice, many ski areas have diversified their activities so that they make money in the summer.  Hunter has the ziplines as their primary off-season activity.  They also have a few festivals (Mountain Jam, Taste of the Country, German Alps, etc.) which all bring in a lot of money.

Mountain Creek has a waterpark, a downhill MTB park, 7 golf courses, plus much more to keep money coming in during the off-season in case they have a bad year.

Coach Z wrote

snoloco wrote

Coach Z wrote

As a GM if you over blow snow in a crappy year you may not be around to worry about pass holders re upping next year.

So you didn't want to ski this year?

running a big resort is a business worth $50+ million.  It has nothing to do with you or I having a good time skiing.  Its make money or else.

Well if you and I don't have a good time skiing, we're not coming back.  If as a GM you decide to not open for an entire season, you will be gone pretty quick and lose even more money as you'll have to refund all your season passholders and prepaid tickets and lodging.  Sometimes it's better to operate at a loss than to close and take a likely greater loss.

snoloco wrote

Any decent ski area should be able to withstand a few bad years without going under or pulling the plug for a season (which you and Z seem to want).  

That's quite presumptuous of you - how do you know what I want. I hope all ski areas survive. Are you trying to be a troll?

Sno, I dig your enthusiasm.

One day you and I are going to have to team up, and run the best ski center in the East with high speed bubbles in one area, Fixed quads in another area, and SnowLogic Dual Vector guns on every trail. We will also diversify our business and make money on more than just snow. Like beer. BTW, no one has mentioned Beer? I heard that ski areas are selling quite a bit more beer this season because people are spending more time in the bar, and less time on the sub-par slopes. I'm going to be the first ski area that is also a hops plantation. Just look at Omegang Brewery in Cooperstown. A stupid little brewery that is now a enormously wealthy but privately owned Brewery al because of baseball. The same can be done with skiing if it's done right.

I wonder how Hunter's Missouri-based parent company even survived this horrible year, much less came up with the money to buy a whole new ski area.  

Ethan Snow wrote

I just don't understand why everyone seems so disappointed that ski areas are still making snow. I'm pretty sure that most of these areas know what they're doing even if it hurts a little.

That's just plain stupid Ethan, no one is disappointed that ski areas are making snow, I don't think anyone said that. I sure hope the ski areas know what their doing, I want to see them survive for years to come. I doubt anyone here has visibility into the books nor do we know what the strategy and long term plans are. I can't say what is right or wrong for any ski area but I can say that if they aren't always paying attention to the bottom line a few bad years in a row will put them on the block.

snoloco wrote

I wonder how Hunter's Missouri-based parent company even survived this horrible year, much less came up with the money to buy a whole new ski area.  

Learn how to read an annual report and maybe you will find out.

Did Missouri have a bad year?  I haven't been following it.

Waiting on two definitions now:

"decent" as in decent ski area
"core" as in core

BTW to my knowledge at this time no one has made snow in March.

PeeTex wrote

snoloco wrote

I wonder how Hunter's Missouri-based parent company even survived this horrible year, much less came up with the money to buy a whole new ski area.  

Learn how to read an annual report and maybe you will find out.

Or take a few finance and business classes when you finally make it to college.

You are lucky to be still in a position where you can enjoy such luxuries. You will see things differently once you are on your own and even more so if you have a kid.

Doing things for the love of it is great but it's not a reality for most of us. I went skiing for twenty years for the love of it and I am paying now.

Edit: FYI, I'm not hating, enjoy that shit while you can!

not exactly true.  They were blowing snow for the Johnsburg Jaguars HS nordic and modified teams so they could practice.  Garnet hill had closed trails for quite some time and the teams had no where to hold event and/or practice.

They are blowing snow as of Feb 27th even at little small mom and pop hills here in WNY, which we all found shocking but didn't have any NYS, Cuomo, Government get out of business, conspiracies to hold onto so we just went with "they are desperate to get people buying passes b/c of all the lost revenue in December."