Snowboarders.

I don't like to get involved in these stories because they just perpetuate stereotypes (obviously not all snowboarders are dangerous and not all teenagers are dicks), but this just happened this past weekend:

Teaching a class, we had a relatively timid woman in the group. Usually, I ski behind people on Sunway to protect them, but I was skiing side by side with her to try to get her to prolong her Tele lead change to be more smooth. Anyway, group of people (skiers and snowboarders) overtakes us mostly on her right side. A young girl on a snowboard knocks the woman over, looks back, notices that she knocked her over, and kept going.

I chased her down (she didn't respond to my yelling to stop, so it took two attempts to stop in front of her so she wouldn't keep going - sprained my ankle on the first attempt). I lit into her pretty good, then I made her wait for the woman in my group to come down so she could apologize. She gave a half hearted apology and some really horrible excuses. I don't have the power to clip tickets (although talking with other instructors, sometimes it happens), but I really wanted to. Snowboarder definitely got some strong words from me, the woman she hit and another woman in the class. The timid one from my group was knocked down and hit her head, but she was otherwise okay. Could have been a lot worse.

My ankle is killing me. I can put weight on it, but it's going to be hard to shove it in a ski boot on Tuesday night.

Oh, the girl's excuses?

- I was trying to keep up with my friends
- I don't know where I'm going and I didn't want to get lost
- I'm only 20, I only ski twice a year, and I don't know any better

Amazing.

To my dieing day i will never give up my rant against boarders..
MRG and Alta are a 100% on point...

Dasvidaniya

JasonWx wrote

To my dieing day i will never give up my rant against boarders..
MRG and Alta are a 100% on point...

Dasvidaniya

You should've just punched the bitch then----obvi she deserved

mattchuck2 wrote

Oh, the girl's excuses?

- I was trying to keep up with my friends
- I don't know where I'm going and I didn't want to get lost
- I'm only 20, I only ski twice a year, and I don't know any better

Amazing.

Yes. Amazing.

But, maybe not. Seems that the industry needs to educate people more. She should know some basic rules before she even clips on that ticket. Like, DON"T RUN INTO PEOPLE, AND THEN KEEP ON GOING. Or, simply, DON"T RUN INTO PEOPLE.
 
Hey, I think I just though of a new ski ambassador gig I would do fro a free pass. I'll just stand at the bottom of the hill, and when I see a bunch of kids carrying boards and wearing outfits that look like somebody ate a bag of Skittles and threw up on them, I'l start shouting at them, "DON'T RUN INTO PEOPLE". And, if they do, they'll bring them to me, and I'll start hitting them with a big stick.

poindexter wrote

Was that on Sunway?  CMR and I saw that. We couldn't believe that guy didn't stop.

poindexter... my curiosity has got the better of me on this one.  Not sure if we are talking about the same incident or not. It was a few weeks ago, and it was on Sunway at Gore.

While I do at times make wider turns (which admittedly makes it harder for the uphill person) at that moment I was really skiing a nearly straight line. I never saw the red jacket, and the contact was on my butt bag.  That circumstantial evidence had me thinking I'd been hit from behind.  In addition it seems to me that when something faster hits something slower often it's the slower thing that goes down.

I was skiing with Jackalope. I asked him what happened, it surprised me that he couldn't determine fault.  He's my friend and I figured that if it was 50/50 he probably give me the benefit of the doubt. I'm guessing he thought it was really my bad.

Regardless, I'd think that if you're on patrol and you see a collision you should stop, no matter what.  The thing that bummed me out the most was that the only real communication between the patroller and me was him shouting up the trail that I was at fault.

If it was the same incident you saw, I'd be very curious to hear your honest assessment of what happened.

Matt, quite a story, hope you are ok. With regard to stereotypes... that's really why I told my story as it OUT of stereotype.

Benny Profane wrote

But, maybe not. Seems that the industry needs to educate people more. She should know some basic rules before she even clips on that ticket. Like, DON"T RUN INTO PEOPLE, AND THEN KEEP ON GOING. Or, simply, DON"T RUN INTO PEOPLE.
 

I guess. But do people really need to be told that? If I was walking down the street and ran into someone (even if it was a complete accident), then I looked behind me and the person had fallen over, wouldn't it be pretty dick of me to just keep going? Should it be up to a someone else to make me stop, apologize, and ask the person I hit if they are okay?

At some point, shouldn't we expect people to have basic moral values and a sense of right and wrong? (Especially by the time you're 20 years old?)

With two kids skiing every weekend at Gore I'm always concerned.

Gore and Whiteface instructors should be given Red jackets (with ORDA logo on back) for better presence and visibility and allowed to clip tickets.

mattchuck2 wrote

At some point, shouldn't we expect people to have basic moral values and a sense of right and wrong? (Especially by the time you're 20 years old?)

Sadly, no. Sometimes I think I'm just being a crochety old guy talking about "kids these days", but, I've been in and seen incidents that convince me that some kids are brought up without any kind of manners or the "morals" you speak of. I'm pretty sure one major contributing factor is that snowboarding attracts skaters, and the awful punk culture from that activity, and that's what results on the hill.
One time I was, I'm pretty sure, intentionally hit by a little brat. I've seen it happen to others a few more times. I think they think it's actually OK to make physical contact with others on the hill. Amazing.

Harvey44 wrote

If it was the same incident you saw, I'd be very curious to hear your honest assessment of what happened.

I think this was sometime before or around Christmas - I remembered it because I have never seen two tele skiers collide before and it was really strange that one didn't help the other one to get up, especially since the one who didn't fall was a patroller.   From what I remember, both skiers were pretty much side-by-side, and they just turned into each other.  These things happen sometimes.  It happened to a friend of mine on the headwall of Hawkeye last year - she and another skier turned toward each other at the exact same time and collided.  Unlike your situation though, everyone helped the two skiers to get their gear back on and there were apologies all around.

Benny Profane wrote

One time I was. I'm pretty sure, intentionally hot...

Aren't you intentionally hot all the time?

poindexter wrote

I think this was sometime before or around Christmas.   From what I remember, both skiers were pretty much side-by-side, and they just turned into each other.

That was me.  Sounds like it was really a "mutual" crash.  That's what my buddy was trying to say.

I really wasn't hurt.  Just a little freaked.

It's scary when you go down like that on teles, as there is no release function.

Harvey44 wrote

Sounds like it was really a "mutual" crash.  That's what my buddy was trying to say.

Mutual or not, the patroller should have stopped. That is their job.

Sick Bird Rider wrote

Benny Profane wrote

One time I was. I'm pretty sure, intentionally hot...

Aren't you intentionally hot all the time?

Ha, you betcha. You wanna touch me?

Denis.N wrote

With two kids skiing every weekend at Gore I'm always concerned.

Gore and Whiteface instructors should be given Red jackets (with ORDA logo on back) for better presence and visibility and allowed to clip tickets.

And then allowed to pummel some of these kids with a large stick. Right on the spot.

edit: Maybe we can combine this with the shock collar idea I'm all for when they venture out of bounds. Yeah. A little zap or two when they get rude. That may work.

Benny Profane wrote

Sick Bird Rider wrote

Benny Profane wrote

One time I was. I'm pretty sure, intentionally hot...

Aren't you intentionally hot all the time?

Ha, you betcha. You wanna touch me?

No, simply basking in your glow would be sufficient.

Denis.N wrote

With two kids skiing every weekend at Gore I'm always concerned.

Gore and Whiteface instructors should be given Red jackets (with ORDA logo on back) for better presence and visibility and allowed to clip tickets.

Well, they give us navy blue jackets, with the ORDA logo on back, to be worn only when teaching or on an assigned duty.  No, we aren't allowed to clip tickets, we are not supposed to be enforcers, rather educators, ambassadors and wait for it... role models.  I'll guarantee that if any of the twenty plus children I ski with in various programs every week was ever at risk due to another skier/rider/teler I can count on every  patroller, liftie, race coach and instructor on the hill to have my back in rectifying the situation in a professional and forthright manner.

There endth the lesson.

Matt, Jason, hope you guys are OK.  

There's a lot of good kids out there too.  Yesterday, pretty late in the day, I was skiing down Foxlair with my 2 kids: Daniel (8) and Sylvie (5).  D was already at the bottom of Foxlair, waiting for us on Sunway.  Sylvie was maybe a third of the way down the steep pitch.  I was pulled off to the side at the top of the steep pitch watching her snowplow her way down.  She over-wedged, and basically sat back down on her butt - not even really a "fall."  A group of about 4 kids, probably 14-ish years old, all good skiers and looking like they were probably park rats (twin tips, Go-Pros, etc.), skied over to her, asked her if she was OK and helped her up.  She got up and skied away and they cheered for her.  I thought that was really cool  - they certainly didn't need to do that - so I skied down to them and said thanks a lot.

  Everyone brings up teens and boarders as rude and dangerous, the most rude and dangerous people I see at the mountains are middle aged skiers showing up to the mountain alone and living in their own little world unaware of their surroundings. There are plenty of awesome boarders out there that can hold their own with any skiers under any conditions.

Gunny J wrote

There are plenty of awesome boarders out there that can hold their own with any skiers under any conditions.

+1

You got that right.  Instructors are always seeking to improve their clients, co-workers and their own skiing or riding.  We often try to synch ski off of each others' turns- easy enough on Sunway, not so much on bumped up Lies, but awful fun and challenging.  Think you can turn your feet fast? Try synch skiing behind one of our Snowboard instructors getting after it- good luck.

"Safety first, Marshall.  That's us every time."

64ER wrote

Denis.N wrote

With two kids skiing every weekend at Gore I'm always concerned.

Gore and Whiteface instructors should be given Red jackets (with ORDA logo on back) for better presence and visibility and allowed to clip tickets.

Well, they give us navy blue jackets, with the ORDA logo on back, to be worn only when teaching or on an assigned duty.  No, we aren't allowed to clip tickets, we are not supposed to be enforcers, rather educators, ambassadors and wait for it... role models.  I'll guarantee that if any of the twenty plus children I ski with in various programs every week was ever at risk due to another skier/rider/teler I can count on every  patroller, liftie, race coach and instructor on the hill to have my back in rectifying the situation in a professional and forthright manner.

There endth the lesson.

+1 to 64er

For insurance purposes we are not allowed to free ski in your uniform unless you are a supervisor.  Personally I think its bad marketing because if more customers saw the staff out ripping on the mountain it might sell more lessons.  When I worked at Killington you had to be a level 3 cert to free ski in your uniform.

At one time we did have red jackets about 4 uniforms ago - I've never been hit so many times in my life - Its like wearing a big target on your body that every one that has trouble stopping sees and figures you will act as a nice pillow to soften their fall.

Yesterday when I was free skiing before line up there was a teen age snow boarder sitting right on the back side of the snowmaking whale blown right at the start of Summit Express where it comes off Excelsior.  I yelled at the kid politely for about a min to get up and move so he did not get hit.  There was no way to see him from above.  he just looked at me like I head 3 heads until I pulled the radio I was carrying out of my pocket and faked calling Patrol about him - that did the trick and he moved off quickly.  Misbehaving boarders should have a big red sticker with the skier / rider responsibility code printed on it put thier boards.  That would shame them into behaving because thier buds would think the sticker was not cool.