The Jay Peak Tram

The tram needs, by some estimates, $4M in maintenance.

I was never a fan of the tram, if you want to ski the summit, it's a lot of work.

Seems to me that is not a wise investment in a really old lift.

How would you spend that $4M (or maybe $6M) to access the summit?

From a dedicated skier's perspective, trams are a tough sell due to their drawbacks. From a family or typical skier, it is a big draw. When I was a kid, I was always impressed by gondolas and trams. Being one of the only two skiable trams in the northeastern United States, it is more important from a marketing and branding perspective than the best lift to get the job done.

There used to a chairlift that also accessed the summit from the Ullr's area but that is gone and wasn't worth replacing. I can't imagine that they would ditch the tram and install a chair. I'm sure the wind would keep such a chair offline more often than not.

There really isn't much terrain worth skiing off the summit unless you are skiing the ridge. Northway is a waste of time unless you want Big Jay access (hiking up from the top of the Flyer is faster than waiting for the tram often times). Vermonter is nice but I don't think it is worth the tram wait. Valhalla and Green Beret are nice for a lark if the line is short.

But for a family or for Joe average skier, taking a tram up and enjoying the summit shack and views and taking in the experience is part of what Jay is offering. It is solid to keep up the tram maintenance, IMO. Not for me, but for the resort in general. Though on a cold windy day without crowds, sometimes that tram isn't half bad...

Ya, looking at the topography of the area it looks like it would make more sense to have two upper mountain chairs, one off each side and only one that would actually reach the summit. Top to bottoms and tram laps don't really look that attractive there imho. I think it would make the skiing a lot better.

The tram is a bit of a marketing ploy.  There's a HSQ right next to it that serves 90% of the same terrain and you don't have to wait for the tram car to come down.  The way Jay Peak is laid out, there is a massive runout at the bottom and you can't lap the terrain very easily.  It really only serves expert terrain at the top, and if what was said in a previous Jay Peak thread is correct, there are a lot of people who ride it that have no business being on that terrain.

I'm hoping that whoever ends up buying Jay Peak replaces The Flyer with a bubble 6-pack as that line is very wind exposed.  It would take a lot of the intermediate families off the tram as there is another warm lift next to it and allow more room for advanced/expert skiers on each tram car.  

snoloco wrote

I'm hoping that whoever ends up buying Jay Peak replaces The Flyer with a bubble 6-pack as that line is very wind exposed.

Then that lift would almost never run instead of running 75% of the time. A bubble is going to make the wind issues worse for that lift. I actively avoid that side of the mountain most days because I hate the Freezer and the Ullr's run out sucks. And I'd be all for having a lift that reduces how cold that lift is. But a bubble would just make the wind issues worse by shutting the lift down more often than not.

According to Mount Snow's GM, their bubble chair can run in higher winds than the HSQ next to it.  The bubble chairs are extremely heavy (1,400 lbs) and are aerodynamic.  It will still go on wind hold, but hopefully less.

Sno,

The average WF skier will have no idea what you are talking about if you bring up a bubble chair.  Just some friendly advice since you soon will join our tribe!

Well you do have a gondola.  A bubble chair is the same thing, except you leave your skis on.  

Monorail!

Those don't work on hills and a Cabriolet is a better mode of transport from the parking lot.

Not a Simpsons fan, I see. I'm not surprised.

No way is fixing the Tram worth that much money.  I usually avoid it altogether as it greatly slows down your lap times particularly if it's a weekend with a line for the tram.

For cheap you could put in a Poma to access the summit from the old lift line on the north side.  There is very little to lap off the summit except for the face double blacks so a surface lift makes sense.

The Flyer already is a real wind problem putting a sail on the chairs would be asinine even if the chairs weight a ton a piece.  For a new owner with deep pockets replacing the Bonnie with a HSQ would be the priority.

If you follow Mount Snow's conditions report, you'll notice that on the days that the bubble chair is on wind hold, the HSQ next to it will also be on wind hold, every time, no exceptions.  

The HSQ has the standard Poma chairs, but with custom extended hanger arms to work in the Yan terminals.  When they had the Yan chairs, they were lighter, but had almost a completely open back, so they didn't catch the wind easily.  I didn't really follow the report back then, so I don't know if it was closed more easily with the Yan chairs or Poma chairs.  

Both chair types in which that lift used are heavier than the Leitner chairs on The Flyer.  The Leitner chairs have a padded back like the Poma chairs do, so they catch wind easily.

Bubble chairs have a much greater surface area for wind to catch, but that surface area is designed to be aerodynamic.  They're also over twice as heavy as open chairs are.  Provided that the bubbles stay closed, the chairs are heavy enough to resist a lot of wind.  On windy days, Mount Snow places a sign at the bottom of the lift saying "Please keep bubble closed".  

Humor deficiency.

I've been on that chair when it is so windy and its running that you can barely stand the ride up and that was in April its brutal in January.  it is situated in a wind tunnel.

What should have happened is the Metro lift should have gone up a bit farther and the Flyer should not have started from the bottom but and it should have been put in at angle from the Kokmo section.  That said its too late to move it now and a bubble is not a feasible solution.

snoloco wrote

If you follow Mount Snow's conditions report

Dont be silly no one does that

Coach Z wrote

I've been on that chair when it is so windy and its running that you can barely stand the ride up and that was in April its brutal in January.  it is situated in a wind tunnel.

What should have happened is the Metro lift should have gone up a bit farther and the Flyer should not have started from the bottom but and it should have been put in at angle from the Kokmo section.  That said its too late to move it now and a bubble is not a feasible solution.

It's like Gore's Adirondack Express in that it goes up to lookers right of the summit, ending on the mountain's shoulder.  Jay Peak and Gore are both eastern exposure in that area, so a northwest wind will funnel around the true summit of the mountain, causing a wind tunnel, which is where that lift is, especially since they cleared the trees out to put it in.

Sno is definitely proving his expertise in this thread - you got my respect there little dude!

I would think the Tram is a great way to extend the tourism draw into summer.

I know that when I go to the "Bird" I will ride the tram only once. For skiers it is a royal PITA. But it is an experience.

Correct, trams are a lot more user friendly than chairs are for non-skiers in the summer.

The one time I skied Jay Peak, the tram was closed, due to lack of snow.  Even if it were open, I'm sure I sill would've taken The Flyer the most.  The issue is that people want an enclosed lift and they're all lining up for the tram to get one.  If The Flyer were a bubble chair, most people who wanted an enclosed lift and intermediate terrain would take that instead of the tram, leaving the snow up at the true summit for the advanced/expert skiers.

I got into a fight in the tram line at Jackson a Hole last year. That guy had no sense of humor, either.