The latest ORDA Screwup

Harvey wrote

I looked on the site and couldn't find the pricing. I do know it is more than Belle or Magic.

My guess is you are right, that Laz has looked at this every way. Maybe he figures the revenue he would lose from the families he has is more than what he would gain.

MJ when I've seen you at P, are you buying a single day tic online or...?

One adult and one teenager, purchased around Sept/Oct was about $900

Do most people break even with their season passes? or is it like a gift card. most go unused or partial used...

JasonWx wrote

Do most people break even with their season passes? or is it like a gift card. most go unused or partial used...

Not sure but you can bet your ass I’m getting my moneys’ worth. It depends whether you compare it to the window price or some theoretical average that accounts for Liftopia discounts, $25 Fridays etc... I figured 10 days each as the break even point which were already past so...

I would be stunned if more than 5% don't "get their money's worth."

I assume you are dividing the pass price by the day ticket price.

My non holiday pass is $599, it is an insurance pass, it guarantees early season turns and spring corn. In between I prefer The back country  and skinny skiing at groomed XC areas [I groom at Garnet Hill ] It dosn't matter if I break even, but I usually have 35/ 40 days in at an ORDA mountain

Harvey wrote

MJ when I've seen you at P, are you buying a single day tic online or...?

Probably a Liftopia ticket.  

Bandit wrote

I encourage you to send your feedback to belleayre on the feedback link on their website.

I'll do that.

Sorry to hear all this.  We skied less this year, and spread our days among mountains, so I haven't noticed as much.  I did note the lack of bumps on the steeper trails, but I assumed that was because it was a thaw/freeze around when I was on the mountain.  I hope they kept the bumps on lower Wanatuska, as those are fun and great for kids (and adults).  I agree with all the other comments that Belle is one of the few mountains in the Cats that has bump runs and week-round availability.  

Regarding the bag check, we have been parking at Discovery due to kids ages (5/8).  There is a sign every five feet, but it is ignored.  I was there President's week, and they did not touch a bag.  I don't agree with a fee for bags where there is no alternative, but something probably needs to be done.  I actually think at Discovery they could not address the bag issue if they wanted to a la what people describe as happening at Whiteface in the past as there isn't much staff down there.  

I have some relationships with some instructors and patrollers.  I don't want to say anything too negative or too specific in a public forum, but I get the sense that many don't believe the new GM has any (what Europeans would call) general management experience.  I have no idea if ORDA upper management cares about feedback (either at the top level of Bell or to the GM's supervision), but there appears to be feedback aplenty to give.  What I am hearing is consistent with the sense I get that the GM was put in to 'shake things up'.  

Funny enough, after challenges all season, my younger child (turned 5) now wants to ski, so it is likely that we will get Ski3 passes and put my older one in the seasonal program next year.  We seriously considered Plattekill, but as MJ or others noted, the pass prices, seasonal program, and availability make it hard to choose Platty over Belle.  Another point I will add on that score is that if your significant other is less ambitious, Platty is more intimidating.  If we were going to ski less again next year, it was more likely that we were going to Platty because they have shorter seasonal program options.  

Not sure what the solution is for the concerns at Belle. . . .

moguljunkie wrote

My daughter and I left our bags on the floor at Belleayre yesterday. Lots of others did, too. I hope there isn't a rule that you can't. And if there is such a rule, I really hope they don't start enforcing it. There's a lot not to like about the new management, but that could be the dealbreaker for me.

By the way, here are my biggest complaints about recent changes:

1. The paid parking lot at the upper lodge. It's a pain not being able to drop off kids and gear right by the lodge.

2. The disappearance of bumps. Whether Belleayre is a beginner/intermediate mountain is debatable, but their intermediate moguls were perfect for kids to develop bump skills. And they made Belleayre's nearly identical trails more interesting.

3. NYSEF coaches (and the kids in their programs) skiing way too fast past the upper lodge. I know it's a pain to get to the terrain park, but they have to suck it up, slow down by the "SLOW" signs, and propel themselves over to the park under their own power. It's a daily menace, and a friend of mine was mowed down earlier this season by a coach and broke his wrist

We hid ours in that copper whatever lounge under the TV. Unfortunately one in our group needed to rent yesterday so we had to boot up at the base. Next time we're renting at the place down the road. (So we can park at mid. The Bell rental department was quick and easy though. Nice people)
 We did notice how flat the bumps under the Superchief were. A non issue for us.
 We had the pleasure of standing in line behind the "Belleayre Freestyle Team" at the Chief. What a bunch of spoiled little asswipes. They were pushing each other over and arguing like miserable bastards craving attention. (Almost like me in Politicrap) The chaperones were pushovers with no balls. It was funny to us that parents invest so much just to have the most unthankful kids on the mountain. One kid skied under the "slow" sign. Cool moves dude! Lol.
P.s. They couldn't give us our free lift ticket that is "preloaded" on our season pass at the ticket window. We had to go downstairs. Wtf? (Full disclosure: We were headed there anyway  for the rental)

The High Peaks Chair. Best practices would be to order a replacement lift before the current lift completely dies.

The grand old lady was 52 this weekend!

x10003q wrote

The High Peaks Chair. Best practices would be to order a replacement lift before the current lift completely dies.

I love that hum as I approach from wood in. Actually, it's more like a whine.

Johnnyonthespot wrote

The disappearance of bumps. Whether Belleayre is a beginner/intermediate mountain is debatable, but their intermediate moguls were perfect for kids to develop bump skills. And they made Belleayre's nearly identical trails more interesting.

Darn tootin'. I'm shocked that Belle got rid of them; they were hugely popular. Anyone know why?

Harvey wrote

The grand old lady was 52 this weekend!

Sort of - they cannibalized the Straight Brook double in the early 1990s to update the High Peaks chair.

Anything that doesn’t fit with Orda (mis)managements concept of thier ski area must go

They are striving for intermediate skiers.  It may make some sense at a small and flat ski area like Belleryre but they are doing the same thing at WF.  The only bumps all yr are the comp bumps on Wilderness. To market WF as a family friendly intermediate mountain is pure lunacy.  Its just not that.  You market it as a experts Mt becuase trying to compete with ikon and epic for blue skiers is a battle Orda cannot win.  orda’s tragic flaw is lack of strategic vision.  

It’s not like the lack of bumps at WF is anything new, or related to them abandoning their expert clientele.  I’ve been skiing WF more than 30 years and they’ve never had quality bumps, not like you find at MRG, etc.  Mac is the only trail that’s ever consistently had ok bumps in the past.  Lookout Below since that’s come along.  Other than that moguls would form somewhat randomly here or there on parts of trails, but they never lasted long or developed quality lines.  Just the way WF has always been, IMHO.

Pre AK Wilderness was allowed to bump the full width for the spring

I also recall a blue bump option I think it was lower Thruway

When I went to Gore a few weeks ago the one thing I did not understand was why they had trails like sagamore and the summit area groomed.  Anything ungroomed was great (including woods) but groomed was semi dangerous.  Belleayre lets some blues bump up.
Bumps keep people safe

For a challenging mountain like WF, to have only ever had a couple trails with bumps....that only reinforces my point.  The lack of bumps at WF isn’t anything new.

Harvey wrote

The grand old lady was 52 this weekend!

she used to be a triple chair. But with all the coats of paint it's down to a double.