Your Local Police: To Serve, Protect and Slap?

I truly have no idea why you would become a cop these days.  Way too many people trying to get you fired.  Anyone with half a brain would avoid it.  That leaves the less then half a brains to do the job.  Not good odds here.  

 

Spongeworthy wrote

PeeTex wrote

One thing you need to consider, driving a car is not a 4th amendment right. Driving a car requires that you are of a certain age, have been tested by the state and have obtained a valid license and that it is current.

 The Fourth Amendment prohibits searches and seizures without probable cause. I'll say it again - a cop cannot pull you over just to check your license. A cop needs a reasonable suspicion - not just a hunch - that a violation of the law has occurred. The Supreme Court case you cited is a narrow holding that the cop in that case was reasonable in believing that one broken tail light was a violation, so the stop was supported by probable cause. It doesn't mean a cop can pull you over for no reason or any reason at all.

Just a wild guess here. You're not a lawyer, right?

Right, and I never argued the point that you can be pulled over for no reason what so ever. However, as several court rulings have stated, any articulable reason is considered justifiable including reasons that are not based on any true violation, just a perceived violation or inaccurate knowledge of the law, the burden of proof for law enforcement is pretty low. Any smart cop can think up a reason. As an example, all our friend from Saratoga has to say is, it appeared he was texting on that cell phone that he was taking that video with as I saw he had his finger in the air like he was pushing buttons - texting while driving is illegal in this state. Once suspicion is established, you are compelled to show your ID.  

Footer wrote

I truly have no idea why you would become a cop these days.  Way too many people trying to get you fired.  Anyone with half a brain would avoid it.  That leaves the less then half a brains to do the job.  Not good odds here.

Isn't that the truth.  

Footer wrote

I truly have no idea why you would become a cop these days.  Way too many people trying to get you fired.  Anyone with half a brain would avoid it.  That leaves the less then half a brains to do the job.  Not good odds here.

It depends -
In my little 3 sq mile town in NJ, patrolmen make north of $100k after 5 years. Chiefs are at $175k or more. There is zero danger. There are drunk drivers, old people falling down, the occasional bear, traffic at the HS football games, maybe a burglary, underage drinking. They get tons of OT for road work/utility work. Any big problems they call the county police. They can retire after 20 years at 50% salary, 25 yrs/65% of salary, up to a max of 70% if they stay to 30 or more. It is like this in many suburban towns in NJ.

The difference in police compensation in our area was made clear to me when I had grand jury duty.

In the "run of the mill cases"  from the major urban center, cops were risking death every day for $38,000 a year.

In the famous rich little town that every one has heard of, the starting salary was $135,000 (chief made $275k). There were 34 police on the force patrolling 10 sq miles. The case that came up was about police misconduct. Basically the cops were bored and were tampering with evidence for their own enjoyment.  The actual case was about a bunch of cops ganging up on another cop who tried to do everything by the book. They didn't like him and committed perjury to get him punished for a judgement call he made in an impossible situation.

That's crazy.

"The Myth of the Hero Cop: Police Officers earn More Than You Think for a Job Less Dangerous than you Imagine"

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2015/05/the_myth_of_the_hero_cop_police_unions_have_spread_a_dangerous_message_about.html

mattchuck2 wrote

"The Myth of the Hero Cop: Police Officers earn More Than You Think for a Job Less Dangerous than you Imagine"

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2015/05/the_myth_of_the_hero_cop_police_unions_have_spread_a_dangerous_message_about.html

Although not really relevant to what police can and can't do, it does present the dark side of municipal workers in a corrupt government system. In some areas police are highly compensated, in some towns where pension is based on the last 3 years compensation police will jack up overtime hours and falsify time cards to retire with outrageous pensions. Are there bad cops - hell yes. However, they are not all bad.

Police unions (and for that matter, teachers unions) have in some cases done very well for their members at a tremendous cost to the tax payers and eventually corrupting the whole system.

ml242 wrote

I'm not saying that either of the shitbird victims in this thread are model citizens, but the police should put the emphasis on 'serve' far more than they do right now -- which imo is to act in their best interests to justify their own existence through meaningless tickets 90% of the time. And that's because I'm white. I'm sure if I was getting stopped and frisked three times a year going to work, I'd feel differently again.

I have a lot of friends who are either cops, or now retired cops. I think the biggest difference now vs. a few years ago is how political being a cop has become. It's all about them generating revenue  thru tickets. It used to be cops were around to protect and serve, guess now they can do that as long as they put out the correct number of tickets each month too. To me that kind of thinking is absurd, and NOT why someone would go into police work.

Slightly OT but.......I won't speak to police compensation and police unions, but I will say there is very little in common there with teachers unions, other than the fact that they both have unions.

Teachers unions aren't getting anybody rich, much less doing so at great expense to the taxpayers in general across the state. Do unions, including teachers unions, protect dead weight and keep pay for performance out of the equation?  Sure, but they aren't getting any teachers rich through high pay and jacked up retirement.  Then there is that school tax thing, which provides a lot of the funding for individual districts.

Teachers as a group are some of the most underpaid professionals on the planet.  My wife has her bachelor's degree, her master's degree, and 25 years of experience.  It's a crime how little she is paid relative to what similar qualifications and experience will get you in ANY other industry, and her job is more important than most, molding and developing the future minds of the world.

Sorry.....teacher rant ended....

JTG4eva! wrote

Slightly OT but.......I won't speak to police compensation and police unions, but I will say there is very little in common there with teachers unions, other than the fact that they both have unions.

Teachers unions aren't getting anybody rich, much less doing so at great expense to the taxpayers in general across the state. Do unions, including teachers unions, protect dead weight and keep pay for performance out of the equation?  Sure, but they aren't getting any teachers rich through high pay and jacked up retirement.  Then there is that school tax thing, which provides a lot of the funding for individual districts.

Teachers as a group are some of the most underpaid professionals on the planet.  My wife has her bachelor's degree, her master's degree, and 25 years of experience.  It's a crime how little she is paid relative to what similar qualifications and experience will get you in ANY other industry, and her job is more important than most, molding and developing the future minds of the world.

Sorry.....teacher rant ended....

Your wife is working in the wrong district. In Scarsdale the AVERAGE teacher salary is $121k/year for a 9 month job. I know of one example of a husband & wife teacher team who did a lot of summer school teaching in their last 5 years and each, not collectively, draw over $100k/year in retirement not including health benefits. Just as with cops, there are many who don't make a lot and some that have worked the system and are doing quite well.

JTG4eva! wrote

Slightly OT but.......I won't speak to police compensation and police unions, but I will say there is very little in common there with teachers unions, other than the fact that they both have unions.

Teachers unions aren't getting anybody rich, much less doing so at great expense to the taxpayers in general across the state. Do unions, including teachers unions, protect dead weight and keep pay for performance out of the equation?  Sure, but they aren't getting any teachers rich through high pay and jacked up retirement.  Then there is that school tax thing, which provides a lot of the funding for individual districts.

Teachers as a group are some of the most underpaid professionals on the planet.  My wife has her bachelor's degree, her master's degree, and 25 years of experience.  It's a crime how little she is paid relative to what similar qualifications and experience will get you in ANY other industry, and her job is more important than most, molding and developing the future minds of the world.

Sorry.....teacher rant ended....

My daughter's K teacher - excellent teacher - makes $105k. Her 1st, 2nd, and 3rd grade teachers are at $78k, $83k, and $94k. It is not like there is a lack of elementary school teachers in my area. When a teacher finally leaves they will get 100+ qualified applicants. It is disingenuous to whine about teacher's pay while enjoying all the other benefits of teaching. I'll bet you enjoyed that steady paycheck that shows up like the sun every day for the last 25 years. At least by me the pay is pretty good, too.

1. After 3 years, tenure, also known as a Job for Life
2. Work for 9 months/year, hours are 8:30-4 (teach from 9-3) with an hour for lunch.
3. Blue chip health/pension package for minimal cost, the health package extends into retirement
4. Advanced degrees are paid by the school system
5. Advanced degrees boost your pay automatically
6. In addition to yearly wage increases, there are bumps at milestone years - 5, 10, 15, 20, 25.

The myth of the 9 month job.  The fallacy of the 8:30 to 4:00 work day.  Like I said, I'd not go anywhere near speaking about police jobs and unions because I wouldn't have a clue, other than what I think I observe and what I read in the papers.  Unless one lives with or knows teachers, or works closely from within a district, one wouldn't have a clue......other than what they think they observe or what they read in the papers.

JTG4eva! wrote

 

Teachers as a group are some of the most underpaid professionals on the planet.  

 

In 1964, when my dad started teaching, I think everyone on the planet would agree with you. He made something like 5000 bucks a year and had to work two other jobs to raise his family. That said, I don't find that statement true anymore. I come from an entire family of teachers...father, both sisters, one bro-in-law, uncles, aunts, cuzinz etc etc ---- NONE of them are hurting for cash...NONE OF THEM. Yes, they do work hard, but show me anyone who's making any kind of decent living who's not working hard and I'l show you a liar.

campgottagopee wrote

JTG4eva! wrote

 

Teachers as a group are some of the most underpaid professionals on the planet.  

 

In 1964, when my dad started teaching, I think everyone on the planet would agree with you. He made something like 5000 bucks a year and had to work two other jobs to raise his family. That said, I don't find that statement true anymore. I come from an entire family of teachers...father, both sisters, one bro-in-law, uncles, aunts, cuzinz etc etc ---- NONE of them are hurting for cash...NONE OF THEM. Yes, they do work hard, but show me anyone who's making any kind of decent living who's not working hard and I'l show you a liar.

It really depends on where you work, in poor districts in upstate, teachers are not making a lot, a living wage, yes but not getting fat. Where you have a strong union and a wealthy district the story is very different. You go down south where there is no union and you will find teachers struggling to make ends meet. Same with cops, it very much depends where you are.

So your measure of whether someone is underpaid is whether or not they are hurting for cash?  One can work hard, make smart choices, have a decent life where they are not hurting for cash......and still be underpaid.

Really, if someone wants to take, for example, a teacher from Scarsdale, with a bachelors, a masters, and 25 years experience on the job, then look at all the hours they actually work (because classrooms don't prepare themselves, curriculums and lessons don't write themselves, and grade books and report cards don't prepare themselves [I could go on, and on]......oh, and none of that gets done in the 'school day' from 8:30 to 4:00)....and determine what their hourly wage is compared to any worker in any other industry with the same education and experience.....well, do it and try to tell me teachers are not underpaid.

Hey, teaching has its benefits.  I'm also not starting a relief fund for the poor destitute teachers.  However, neither will I sit by while people imply that teachers and their unions are corrupting the system and fleecing the taxpayers.  The only thing teachers are 'under' more than paid is appreciated.

JTG4eva! wrote

The myth of the 9 month job.  The fallacy of the 8:30 to 4:00 work day.  Like I said, I'd not go anywhere near speaking about police jobs and unions because I wouldn't have a clue, other than what I think I observe and what I read in the papers.  Unless one lives with or knows teachers, or works closely from within a district, one wouldn't have a clue......other than what they think they observe or what they read in the papers.

+ big numbers. My wife is a teacher and I was for 31 years. We have 3 kids, none of whom went into education and we are both very happy they didn't. It's a tough job that keeps getting tougher. The bull shit runs down hill from school boards, state ed., administrators, politicians, kids whose only agenda is to cause trouble, and parents that think their kid can do no wrong and the teachers are at the bottom of the hill.

JTG4eva! wrote

So your measure of whether someone is underpaid is whether or not they are hurting for cash?  One can work hard, make smart choices, have a decent life where they are not hurting for cash......and still be underpaid.

 

To some degree yes. Underpaid is simply a matter of opinion.

JTG4eva! wrote

 

Really, if someone wants to take, for example, a teacher from Scarsdale, with a bachelors, a masters, and 25 years experience on the job, then look at all the hours they actually work (because classrooms don't prepare themselves, curriculums and lessons don't write themselves, and grade books and report cards don't prepare themselves [I could go on, and on]......oh, and none of that gets done in the 'school day' from 8:30 to 4:00)....and determine what their hourly wage is compared to any worker in any other industry with the same education and experience.....well, do it and try to tell me teachers are not underpaid.

 

the good teachers do what your talking about....but the unions keep the not-so-good teachers employed.

Please don't talk to me about working long hours, I know all about it, AND I do it year round!!!

JTG4eva! wrote

 

Hey, teaching has its benefits.  I'm also not starting a relief fund for the poor destitute teachers.  However, neither will I sit by while people imply that teachers and their unions are corrupting the system and fleecing the taxpayers.  The only thing teachers are 'under' more than paid is appreciated.

Unions totally suck....that's just my opinion tho. We can agree to disagree

campgottagopee wrote

Unions totally suck....that's just my opinion tho. We can agree to disagree

What would the middle class in this country look like if labor unions had come into being?

http://www.unionplus.org/about/labor-unions/36-reasons-thank-union

Highpeaksdrifter wrote

campgottagopee wrote

Unions totally suck....that's just my opinion tho. We can agree to disagree

What would the middle class in this country look like if labor unions had come into being?

http://www.unionplus.org/about/labor-unions/36-reasons-thank-union

Hard to say. Your statement is ambiguous at best. Is that thanks to a teacher and the Teacher's Union ?