Your Local Police: To Serve, Protect and Slap?

campgottagopee wrote

How do you think our founding fathers would feel about people stomping on the American Flag(that shit is against the friggin law)....Good old George would've shot the dumb ass who did that. What would the answer to the question, "should we play the national anthem before all sporting events", or, "should we have our children recite the pledge of allegiance before the begging of  each school day"

^ Haha, yes, I'm sure that History was exactly like this:

http://youtu.be/KN_Biavn7pA

(Harv, embed that video. I'm on my phone and I'm having trouble making my hilariously witty point with the dumb YouTube app that lacks embed codes)

PeeTex wrote

campgottagopee wrote

My point being things are completely different now....sometimes I wish America would get er balls back

What does that mean? I hear that kind of comment a lot, usually from the Fox Noise crowd.

What do I mean?? Just look around....I don;t have much time but I'll give you a quick example: during the latest riots cops were told to stand down while hard working Americans had their lives ruined by friggin thugs. That shit is just wrong. Let the cops do their job and don't be a pussy about it.

mattchuck2 wrote

campgottagopee wrote

How do you think our founding fathers would feel about people stomping on the American Flag(that shit is against the friggin law)....Good old George would've shot the dumb ass who did that. What would the answer to the question, "should we play the national anthem before all sporting events", or, "should we have our children recite the pledge of allegiance before the begging of  each school day"

^ Haha, yes, I'm sure that History was exactly like this:

http://youtu.be/KN_Biavn7pA

(Harv, embed that video. I'm on my phone and I'm having trouble making my hilariously witty point with the dumb YouTube app that lacks embed codes)

As a proud American I put my flag out every morning and bring it in EVERY. GOD. DAMN. NIGHT

campgottagopee wrote

How do you think our founding fathers would feel about people stomping on the American Flag(that shit is against the friggin law)....Good old George would've shot the dumb ass who did that. What would the answer to the question, "should we play the national anthem before all sporting events", or, "should we have our children recite the pledge of allegiance before the begging of  each school day"

I’ve never understood why the National Anthem is a sacred ritual at sporting events and not other events. Why not before a movie starts, a concert, a wedding reception or on the job before the work day starts? Why is it deemed important that we show our patriotism at all sporting events? How did that start?

Let me tell ya something about the Pledge of Allegiance in school. You can’t make the students stand up for it any more you can only make them be quiet during it. Most do stand though, even though none of them recite it or pay attention to the words. They just kinda stand there, minds elsewhere, fiddling around, waiting for it to be over. It’s not the most inspiring sight.  I think the way its done now in schools is more disrespectful then not doing it at all.

Highpeaksdrifter wrote

I’ve never understood why the National Anthem is a sacred ritual at sporting events and not other events. Why not before a movie starts, a concert, a wedding reception or on the job before the work day starts?

I wonder about that too. It's not like you're more drunk at the game then any of those other places

Highpeaksdrifter wrote

I’ve never understood why the National Anthem is a sacred ritual at sporting events and not other events. Why not before a movie starts, a concert, a wedding reception or on the job before the work day starts? Why is it deemed important that we show our patriotism at all sporting events? How did that start?

No clue how it started or why it's not done other events. I just know that I like it and I always will sing along whenever it's being played.

Highpeaksdrifter wrote

Let me tell ya something about the Pledge of Allegiance in school. You can’t make the students stand up for it any more you can only make them be quiet during it. Most do stand though, even though none of them recite it or pay attention to the words. They just kinda stand there, minds elsewhere, fiddling around, waiting for it to be over. It’s not the most inspiring sight.  I think the way its done now in schools is more disrespectful then not doing it at all.

When I was in school we stood with our hands over our hearts and recited the Pledge of Allegiance, PERIOD -ZIP - NO excuses, you did it. It's just the way it was. Your comment of how it seems more disrespectful the way it's done now is sad. Why is that?? Why are people losing respect for one and other and our country. I already know I'm old fashion but the kinds of actions you described are mind blowing to me. I guess that kind of behavior, actions, train of thought or whatever you want to call it starts at home. If I acted like that I'd have hell to pay once my parents found out about it.

campgottagopee wrote

Your comment of how it seems more disrespectful the way it's done now is sad. Why is that??

An elementary school kid does not really understand the concept of nationalism.  We tell Kids "You should be proud of 'your' country" but I don't think they really understand why.  To be honest, I don't think they really care.  For this reason, the "pledge" is simply words they are forced to say.  For most kids... the words are probably pretty meaningless.  IMO: This makes it disrespectful.  

nepa wrote

campgottagopee wrote

Your comment of how it seems more disrespectful the way it's done now is sad. Why is that??

An elementary school kid does not really understand the concept of nationalism.  We tell Kids "You should be proud of 'your' country" but I don't think they really understand why.  To be honest, I don't think they really care.  For this reason, the "pledge" is simply words they are forced to say.  For most kids... the words are probably pretty meaningless.  IMO: This makes it disrespectful.

Good point, and I can understand that. BUT!! When I was a kid I knew that my Dad would stand and partake in the Pledge of Allegiance so that alone would make me want to do it. If my Dad was doing it I wanted to, I knew it had to be a good thing to do.

campgottagopee wrote

When I was a kid I knew that my Dad would stand and partake in the Pledge of Allegiance so that alone would make me want to do it. If my Dad was doing it I wanted to, I knew it had to be a good thing to do.

Yup.  I looked up to my father in the same way.  I don't think this type of parental respect is quite as prevalent today.

"Imagine there's no country. It isn't hard to do. Nothing to kill or die for. And no religion, too."

mattchuck2 wrote

"Imagine there's no country. It isn't hard to do. Nothing to kill or die for. And no religion, too."

I can't think that way, Matt

I wasn't brought up that way

I've lost too many friends / family members protecting our American rights to think that way. So, yea, it is hard for me to do.

Cheers bro

Also, when you look into the history of the Star-Spangled Banner and the Pledge of Allegiance, you start to ask yourself why they're so celebrated today. The Pledge of Allegiance was written during the war of 1812, I think, and it was based off of a British drinking song. Nothing says "America" like some other country's song with different words.

 The Pledge of Allegiance is even more ridiculous. I think it wa relatively unknown and forgotten until the 1950s when the communist menace made everyone very scared and stupid (much like they are today). It was also around this time that the words "under God" were added in a deliberate attempt by big business to recruit flag waving, patriotic religious people to their cause so that their dumb ideas (low taxes for rich people, no regulations on business, no safety net, anti Union sentiments, etc.) would have a place in the public sphere of ideas. "In God We Trust" was added to money at about the same time.

Without the patriotic religious crowd on their side, the "conservative" ideas on business and rich people (today mostly represented by the Republican Party) would have had a much harder time gaining a foothold in the marketplace of ideas (you'll recall Eisenhower warning of the Military Industrial complex in his farewell address). After a brief period of liberalism in the 1960s, mostly owing to the death of John F. Kennedy,  Nixon used the "Southern strategy" to perfection,  relying on those patriots and religious folks but also mixing in some racists, and there's your Fox News Audience (and unwitting big business supporters) right there.

 I'm hoping the Pope Francis and some other thinkers can return the Christians in this country to believing that it's easier for a camel to fit through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get into heaven but I'm not holding my breath. People are pitched these ideas so often and relentlessly, they start to believe them. "Rich People are Job Creators" "The Government is the Problem" "Tax Cuts lead to Growth" All Bullshit, but spouted every day by Rush, Hannity, and every Republican candidate in service of their corporate masters.

/rant

campgottagopee wrote

I've lost too many friends / family members protecting our American rights to think that way.

I don't mean this to be inflammatory... I always ask this question when I see similar statements as you have written above.  IMO: Within my lifetime (40 years), I don't feel like our rights (or freedom) has been threatened by foreign forces in any way whatsoever.  I feel like the statement "Protecting our Freedom" is a bullshit piece of propaganda. In reality... this really means "Protecting the economic interests of the Investor Class"

In your opinion, what American rights (or freedoms) were being protected by the soldiers we lost in Vietnam, Afghanistan, or Iraq?

nepa wrote

campgottagopee wrote

I've lost too many friends / family members protecting our American rights to think that way.

In your opinion, what American rights (or freedoms) were being protected by the soldiers we lost in Vietnam, Afghanistan, or Iraq?

Tough to answer that question because IMHO you have 3 very different conflicts there.

Vietnam was a proxy war of containment.  Stop the commies! Did it protect American freedoms at home?  Probably no more so than the Korean conflict.  Unlike WWI and WWII, Korea and Vietnam didn't stop madmen from taking over Europe/Asia/the world.  I suppose you believe Korea and Vietnam were nothing more than a sham to prop up the war machine, lining the coffers of the profiteers?

The Iraq War (2003), along with which you could have lumped Desert Shield/Storm.....that was about oil, which one could argue was about nothing but profit.  However, what would the American way of life, and some of our freedoms....of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness....be if we let the Saddam Husseins of the world corner the market on oil?  But you have a better argument on this one.

Afghanistan I think is legitimately about securing American liberty to live without the fear of terrorism from al Queda and the Taliban.  When a war of some sort comes to pass with ISIS I think the same will hold true.  

nepa wrote

campgottagopee wrote

I've lost too many friends / family members protecting our American rights to think that way.

I don't mean this to be inflammatory... I always ask this question when I see similar statements as you have written above.  IMO: Within my lifetime (40 years), I don't feel like our rights (or freedom) has been threatened by foreign forces in any way whatsoever.  I feel like the statement "Protecting our Freedom" is a bullshit piece of propaganda. In reality... this really means "Protecting the economic interests of the Investor Class"

In your opinion, what American rights (or freedoms) were being protected by the soldiers we lost in Vietnam, Afghanistan, or Iraq?

The right to sit here in my office and waist time on the internet

JTG4eva! wrote

I suppose you believe Korea and Vietnam were nothing more than a sham to prop up the war machine, lining the coffers of the profiteers?

Not exactly.  I do know we killed a lot of innocent civilians (both in Vietnam and Cambodia).  All things considered, the "containment" of communism in Southeast Asia turned out to be rather large waste of human life.  Right?  Are you saying that lives of the both the civilians and soldiers that were lost in Vietnam were for a good reason?  Can you tell me anything about the leadership in South Vietnam during 60's?

JTG4eva! wrote

Afghanistan I think is legitimately about securing American liberty to live without the fear of terrorism from al Queda and the Taliban.  When a war of some sort comes to pass with ISIS I think the same will hold true.

I disagree.  By going after the religious fanatics (Al Qaeda, ISIS, <insert name for next group here>), we are not only putting  soldiers lives in jeopardy, but we are making the homeland less secure.  This is a much different type of foreign policy issue that will not be resolved with brute force.  A tank is no match for a suicide bomber in a sleeper cell.  By using the tank, we are creating more suicide bombers that are difficult (if not impossible) to contain.

campgottagopee wrote

The right to sit here in my office and waist time on the internet

I made sure they put that in my contract before I started my current job.  In my opinion it belongs in every modern workplace constitution.  I think we can all agree... Wasting time in the office is an inalienable right of everyone on earth...  just like privacy and freedom of speech.

nepa wrote

All things considered, the "containment" of communism in Southeast Asia turned out to be rather large waste of human life.  Right?  Are you saying that lives of the both the civilians and soldiers that were lost in Vietnam were for a good reason?  Can you tell me anything about the leadership in South Vietnam during 60's?

Hey, I thought I pretty much sided with you that Korea and Vietnam didn't secure much in the way of freedoms.  I wasn't trying to say otherwise with my question to you.  You implied Vietnam (along with the others) was more about greed than freedom.  I'm just trying to figure out where that conclusion comes from.

As for battling the terrorists.....be they al Queda, Taliban, ISIS, insert next....do you feel that the world is any safer a place when an organization like al Queda losses its leadership and most of its teeth?

nepa wrote

campgottagopee wrote

The right to sit here in my office and waist time on the internet

I made sure they put that in my contract before I started my current job.  In my opinion it belongs in every modern workplace constitution.  I think we can all agree... Wasting time in the office is an inalienable right of everyone on earth...  just like privacy and freedom of speech.