hydrofracking yay or nay

sudsnbumps wrote

 I know people that don't have any fracking going on near their wells and they can light their water....

Ah, that's just firewater! Perhaps Chief Two Bowls and Chief Running Boards will concur.

I used to remove underground storage tanks and clean up the contamination. Once I did a car dealership who had contamination. The owner had a small aneurism when he had to pay significant clean up costs. " What the @$%#! Out on my property outside of town, oil comes to the surface naturally ! ".

sudsnbumps wrote

I know people that don't have any fracking going on near their wells and they can light their water...They did it right in front of me, so I think that is a weak argument.  I am not opposed to fracking but would definitely want to know more if it was going on or near my property.  It would definitely be a tough decision

Have you heard of horizontal drilling?
They go down and make a right angle turn and go out horizontally, they can go out several miles from the well head.

Yup. I was in Pennsylvania 3 years ago. We were riding our quads on state trails and were miles away from a well head area. There were workers scattered around the woods with many seismographs strung out through the woods taking readings. I was surprised to see them so far back in and how large an area they had the instruments spread over.

North central PA is very remote. The roads are very narrow and with little traffic. The frickin fracking trucks were everywhere and several times nearly ran us off the road.

sudsnbumps wrote

I know people that don't have any fracking going on near their wells and they can light their water...They did it right in front of me, so I think that is a weak argument.  I am not opposed to fracking but would definitely want to know more if it was going on or near my property.  It would definitely be a tough decision

If you water doesn't light on fire...
And your neighbor puts in a fraking well
And your water starts to light on fire after the well goes in..

That's not a weak argument..

I have friends in NE Ohio...
Never had earthquakes...
They started putting fraking wells.
Now they have earthquakes...


http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money/story/2012-03-09/fracking-gas-drilling-earthquakes/53435232/1

If Rex Tillerson is against it, that's good enough for me:

Exxon CEO Profits Huge As America's Largest Natural Gas Producer-But Frack In His Own Backyard And He Sues!

GetAmped wrote

If Rex Tillerson is against it, that's good enough for me:

Exxon CEO Profits Huge As America's Largest Natural Gas Producer-But Frack In His Own Backyard And He Sues!

LOL I hadn't seen this.

I'd think it would be smarter for Rex to move somewhere where fracking didn't make sense than to oppose it. Hard to believe he didn't see the implications of this.

I'm for this and the keystone pipeline

The US now has more proven reserves than Saudi Arabia.  This and what is happening in North Dakota is a game changer for our economy going forward.

Here's a good question..... Worldwide we pump 100 million barrels of oil out per day. What is that doing to the earth's physical structure ?

Coach Z wrote

I'm for this and the keystone pipeline

The US now has more proven reserves than Saudi Arabia.  This and what is happening in North Dakota is a game changer for our economy going forward.

At the risk of ruining the environment and poisoning people???
So lame... putting $$ in front of people...   Let those rich people make their money at the risk of destroying the world...

Until this is regulated - I will fight this with every bone in my body..

I don't trust ANYONE int he oil/gas industry...

they all lie to make $$$$

The gas that's in the ground isn't going anywhere.  Why the rush to extract it? Better to wait until fracking technology/regulation improves enough to eliminate the ground water contamination risks, or until the current technology can be proven to be safe, even if that's decades from now. While I'd like our state (NY) to eventually access this (relatively) clean energy source and lessen (or eliminate) our foreign dependence, I'd rather wait and see than rush and regret.

Well said Jeff. My thoughts exactly. It can wait. Tech will improve. People are already working on ways to do it without toxic chemicals.

Encasing steel pipe with concrete will most definitely fail eventually and then provide a path for the toxics and ground water to mix.

campgottagopee wrote

I hear what you and Warp are saying, and part of me feels the same way. That said, is that reality?? I don't think so. You mention kids and their kids.......I'll use the farm we hunt on as an example.

We hunt a 400 acre farm, it's a amazing piece of property full of harwoods, ravines, high ridges, ponds, fields and streams...when I'm there it's heaven on earth for me. It's a second generation farm that I fear wont make it to the third due to taxes being 12k/year. The owner is 82yrs old, granted he's sears kenmore tuff, but still 82. None of his kids, right now, could afford to keep the place due to the taxes.

CAMP CAMP CAMP!!  I got a great idea for you guys.  Pitch in and lease the farm for hunting season and woodchuck season!!  How many guys in the camp?  divide by that and bam for probably a 1000 a year you guys save the farm without poisionng the groudwater or causing earthquakes...  

Coach Z wrote

I'm for this and the keystone pipeline

The US now has more proven reserves than Saudi Arabia.  This and what is happening in North Dakota is a game changer for our economy going forward.

Coach better make sure your boy likes mtn biking cause continued use of fossil fuels is def contributing to a warming planet.....

Keystone and tar sands is a step 100 years backwards...  

Snowballs wrote

Well said Jeff. My thoughts exactly. It can wait. Tech will improve. People are already working on ways to do it without toxic chemicals.

Encasing steel pipe with concrete will most definitely fail eventually and then provide a path for the toxics and ground water to mix.

everyday the sun puts out enough energy to fuel the entire planet ten times over, so why not solar!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's another thing. Why take a huge risk at poisoning massive amounts of ground water when solar will most likely make huge gains in the coming decades ?

ScottyJack wrote

campgottagopee wrote

I hear what you and Warp are saying, and part of me feels the same way. That said, is that reality?? I don't think so. You mention kids and their kids.......I'll use the farm we hunt on as an example.

We hunt a 400 acre farm, it's a amazing piece of property full of harwoods, ravines, high ridges, ponds, fields and streams...when I'm there it's heaven on earth for me. It's a second generation farm that I fear wont make it to the third due to taxes being 12k/year. The owner is 82yrs old, granted he's sears kenmore tuff, but still 82. None of his kids, right now, could afford to keep the place due to the taxes.

CAMP CAMP CAMP!!  I got a great idea for you guys.  Pitch in and lease the farm for hunting season and woodchuck season!!  How many guys in the camp?  divide by that and bam for probably a 1000 a year you guys save the farm without poisionng the groudwater or causing earthquakes...  

That plan has been in the works for a few years now. Hopefully things will work out......things like this always do.

ScottyJack wrote

everyday the sun puts out enough energy to fuel the entire planet ten times over, so why not solar!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Absolutely solar.  However, we are going to need clean (relatively) fossil fuels (i.e. natty gas) as a bridge to solar (or some other technology) for many decades to come.  Every barrel of oil or ton of coal that is replaced by natty gas is a good thing.  That said, natty gas can't replace all of our oil consumption - there's a lot of places gas pipelines can't reach.

campgottagopee wrote

I hear what you and Warp are saying, and part of me feels the same way. That said, is that reality?? I don't think so. You mention kids and their kids.......I'll use the farm we hunt on as an example.

We hunt a 400 acre farm, it's a amazing piece of property full of harwoods, ravines, high ridges, ponds, fields and streams...when I'm there it's heaven on earth for me. It's a second generation farm that I fear wont make it to the third due to taxes being 12k/year. The owner is 82yrs old, granted he's sears kenmore tuff, but still 82. None of his kids, right now, could afford to keep the place due to the taxes.

As much as I appreciate the stewardship that guys like this represent, it's not an valid argument for fracking.  The 82 yr old farmer didn't buy his farm (or inherit it) with the expectation of someday leasing it for hydraulic fracturing.  Instead, fracking came along many years later, with all the promises of a big bucks payout.  Kind of like winning the lottery.  Not everybody gets to win the lottery.

I don't pretend to have the answers, but around here (Saratoga County), many families who have owned farmland for generations but no longer wish to be active farmers lease their land to larger dairy operations, enabling them to retain ownership but still cover their taxes and other costs.  Agricultural land trusts are also used - ownership is retained but development rights are sold to the ag trust.

The why on rush to extract it is money, lots to be made. Sure there are some costs but everything is a trade off right.

Wind, Solar, hydro are all good. But until we get good energy storage technologies and better efficiencies they will only help a little. That and the utilities need to be forced to buy back energy at market rates.