hydrofracking yay or nay

i got off a couple great Baba Booies for some TV cameras on Times Square last week..

Looks like Keystone may be dead.  TransCanada withdrew the application. Seems like it may have more to do with politics in Canada vs the US.

And watch the Canadian economy tank...

It's hard to picture the Canadian economy getting much worse. But it's important for countries to have a multifaceted approach to generating wealth, if you solely depend on exploiting natural resources than you are at the whim of the market. That's how Russia ended up where they are. I don't think the Keystone Pipeline was worth it for either country but hopefully it will be an opportunity for us both to grow and I also hope that Canada doesn't do something stupid like reroute the pipe to the New Foundland like they were also discussing (utilizing the train tracks I guess?).

Trudeau won't be in favor of that either, I would guess. If the permits are really ready to go on the Canadian side than this might also be a ploy by Keystone to see if there will just be a more favorable government to them in the next year and a half after Obama leaves.

Harvey wrote

Looks like Keystone may be dead.  TransCanada withdrew the application. Seems like it may have more to do with politics in Canada vs the US.

Turns out it wasn't dead because those in power rammed it through over concerns about it leaking everywhere.

Wow, what a surprise:
https://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/468353-keystone-pipeline-spills-over-350000-gallons-of-oil-in-north-dakota

Is this too political? Is saying "some oil spilled" too political now?

Although any industrial spill is bad the impact of this ( Only 1/2 acre) is much smaller than an oil train accident https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lac-Mégantic_rail_disaster

Nobody wants to talk about the positives

My neighbor, who's a big pipeline boss, said exactly what you just did PeeTex.

nord stream 2,  Now that's a pipeline.  

It's a mistake to judge the safety of various transportation systems based on a few isolated disasters. Any energy system designed to supply 7 billion people with a modern standard of living is gonna have some environmental consequences, but experts usually consider pipelines the safest way to transport large quantities of liquids and gases.
Pipeline opponents always bring up safety, but the real agenda is either NIMBYism or limiting competition.

mm

Milo Maltbie wrote

It's a mistake to judge the safety of various transportation systems based on a few isolated disasters. Any energy system designed to supply 7 billion people with a modern standard of living is gonna have some environmental consequences, but experts usually consider pipelines the safest way to transport large quantities of liquids and gases.
Pipeline opponents always bring up safety, but the real agenda is either NIMBYism or limiting competition.

mm

Well said. I agree

Milo Maltbie wrote

.
Pipeline opponents always bring up safety, but the real agenda is either NIMBYism or limiting competition.

mm

I think NIMBYism is okay when saying "I don't want something that might spill all sorts of oil on my property and poison my kids with SVOCs"

Probably less okay when I'm saying "I don't want *those people* living near me, so I don't approve of this housing project"

It's be nice if we could hasten the transition to renewable energy so we wouldn't have to transport enormous amounts of oil (is that too political?).

MC2 5678F589 wrote

I think NIMBYism is okay when saying "I don't want something that might spill all sorts of oil on my property and poison my kids with SVOCs"

The most effective NIMBY tactic is "poison someone else's kids."

mm

What's up with the nat gas shortage in NY? No fracking, but no new gas pipelines either?

Johnnyonthespot wrote

What's up with the nat gas shortage in NY? No fracking, but no new gas pipelines either?

Cuomo denied allowing a pipeline from PA to run through New York. His thinking was, "If we don't allow fracking in New York  why should we allow a pipeline carrying fracked gas run through the state?"
The problem with no pipeline in NY is that you can't get to New England without going through New York.

I know the people in the southern tier are really pissed about the no fracking rule. Their neighbors just south if them in PA are getting paid big bucks for mineral rights and commissions on gas extracted from beneath their properties.

trackbiker wrote

 

I know the people in the southern tier are really pissed about the no fracking rule. Their neighbors just south if them in PA are getting paid big bucks for mineral rights and commissions on gas extracted from beneath their properties.

Rightfully so!

There's a capped gas well in my backyard that I own some rights to. Open er up baby!

trackbiker wrote

Johnnyonthespot wrote

What's up with the nat gas shortage in NY? No fracking, but no new gas pipelines either?

Cuomo denied allowing a pipeline from PA to run through New York. His thinking was, "If we don't allow fracking in New York  why should we allow a pipeline carrying fracked gas run through the state?"
The problem with no pipeline in NY is that you can't get to New England without going through New York.

I know the people in the southern tier are really pissed about the no fracking rule. Their neighbors just south if them in PA are getting paid big bucks for mineral rights and commissions on gas extracted from beneath their properties.

Maybe one day the NY'ers will make back the money when they sell our clean water to the PA residents!
I was thinking the gas truck drivers must be happy about it. Makes ya wonder...

trackbiker wrote

Johnnyonthespot wrote

What's up with the nat gas shortage in NY? No fracking, but no new gas pipelines either?

Cuomo denied allowing a pipeline from PA to run through New York. His thinking was, "If we don't allow fracking in New York  why should we allow a pipeline carrying fracked gas run through the state?"
The problem with no pipeline in NY is that you can't get to New England without going through New York.

Cuomo totally blew it on this denial of the natural gas pipeline. New England burns oil to heat houses and, as we all know, burning oil  generates way more air pollution than burning natural gas. It was an arrogant and misguided decision by The Emperor Cuomo II. Currently, there is no other suitable replacement for oil for heating your house in NE.

trackbiker wrote

I know the people in the southern tier are really pissed about the no fracking rule. Their neighbors just south if them in PA are getting paid big bucks for mineral rights and commissions on gas extracted from beneath their properties.

I wonder if frackers in PA are sideways drilling north under the NYS border?

x10003q wrote

 Currently, there is no other suitable replacement for oil for heating your house in NE.

There's natural gas in New England, you maniacs:

https://www.eia.gov/state/analysis.php?sid=MA

http://www.puc.state.nh.us/gas-steam/naturalgasinnh.htm

Also, I'm not sure Pennsylvania is really getting the jobs boom that you think it is from Natural Gas:

https://paworkstats.geosolinc.com/vosnet/analyzer/results.aspx

https://labor.ny.gov/stats/sou/index.shtm

That last link says that, in lieu of fracking, the southern tier is getting into industrial hemp farming. Cool.

MC2 5678F589 wrote

 the southern tier is getting into industrial hemp farming. Cool.

We have a hemp farm not that far from my house, go by it everyday. One thing I've noticed is they still have product ion the ground. If that was weed it would be ruined by now. Does anyone know if hemp can get moldy and still be worth $$$? I would hope so otherwise they've lost some cash.

MC2 5678F589 wrote

There's natural gas in New England, you maniacs:

Almost all New England natural gas is supplied by pipelines through NY. Those pipelines and the electric transmission lines are often constrained in the same hours. That means that in order to meet Boston peak electric loads and reliability requirements, you need to add high voltage transmission lines, natural gas pipelines or burn more oil. No amount of solar or wind generation will provide reliable peak power.

MC2 5678F589 wrote

That last link says that, in lieu of fracking, the southern tier is getting into industrial hemp farming. Cool.

Why not both?

mm