The latest ORDA Screwup

Dude ya gotta work
4 weeks is enough and fair...

So, someone makes their own choices that lead to shit jobs with little vacation and that is a political problem that society has to solve?

Nah.....make better choices!  Or live with your choices.

As is typical, your chart is useless.  No details or parameters.  Hey, I get 26 days of PTO a year plus 10 holidays, so I guess we can add the US at 36 days.

JTG4eva! wrote

Hey, I get 26 days of PTO a year plus 10 holidays, so I guess we can add the US at 36 days.

Me too.

JasonWx wrote

Dude ya gotta work
4 weeks is enough and fair...

Yeah, devoting 48 of your 52 weeks per year to a company that pays you less than your parents made for the same job in the 80's (inflation adjusted), forces you to be "on call" at a times, and has the ability to terminate you at any time is "fair". Maybe I'm just upset because my brother in law was fired on Christmas Eve day (after 12 years at a place) when they know his first child is due in March.

Anyway, read that article I linked to. There aren't enough startups and there isn't enough dynamism in the economy because entrenched "major" companies hire college graduates at cut-rate prices, work them to the bone, then replace them with a fresh group of graduates if they ask for better pay.

Anyway, that's enough. Veering too far into politics I guess.

JTG4eva! wrote

So, someone makes their own choices that lead to shit jobs with little vacation and that is a political problem that society has to solve?

Nah.....make better choices!  Or live with your choices.

As is typical, your chart is useless.  No details or parameters.  Hey, I get 26 days of PTO a year plus 10 holidays, so I guess we can add the US at 36 days.

The chart is how many days that the governments of those countries *require* businesses to give their employees. I know that concept is difficult for people in a country without such a rule to understand, but just give it a try.

And yeah, I like jobs that give a lot of vacation, too, but let's not pretend that those jobs make up the majority of jobs in this country.

JasonWx wrote

Dude ya gotta work
4 weeks is enough and fair...

Agree

MC2 5678F589 wrote

Yeah, devoting 48 of your 52 weeks per year to a company that pays you less than your parents made for the same job in the 80's (inflation adjusted), forces you to be "on call" at a times, and has the ability to terminate you at any time is "fair". Maybe I'm just upset because my brother in law was fired on Christmas Eve day (after 12 years at a place) when they know his first child is due in March.

There aren't enough startups

There is elasticity in the price of labor and I think you're citing some reasons why there aren't enough startups.  That said, assuming he wasn't dismissed for a good reason, I really do feel for your brother.  In some jurisdictions you can be given notice that you're going to be laid off but actually have to work through your severance period.

That right there is enough reason to be fiscally sound.....so that if you're ever put in that position, you can leave more on your own terms.

If you keep things simple you don’t have to work your life away.

Most people buy too much shit. The American dream can be like a prison sentence.

JasonWx wrote

This is not true..
My youngest daughter is graduating this semester. She has a job offer from a major company . Good pay and 4 weeks vacation.

My oldest daughter has been working for 2 years also has almost 4 week/year..

Of course there are exceptions , but I know many recent grads that have similar deals..

I have 3 weeks. I rarely get to use 1 week of the 3 weeks I am given because work blocks me from taking any additional days. Even the days I take, I end up working some portion of the time I take off. Same goes for most holidays except for Christmas, Thanksgiving, 4th of July, and New Years.

So yes while I have 3 weeks of vacation, and most of my friends have about as much also, getting to actually use that vacation and not getting chastised at work for using it or being blocked from taking it is a different story. Most of my friends my age have the same problem across a broad range of industries.

Not trying to be political here or start an argument. Just saying my thoughts in general on why skier visits may have been declining over time.

MC2 5678F589 wrote

I looked to see if North Creek was being helped by all of the millions they poured into Gore and found this:
 
  Population - 2018      1,351
  Population - 2010 1,770
  Population - 2000 2,082
  Population - 1990 2,412
  Pop. 1990 to Now -43.99%


Holy shit.

NC population decrease has probably less to do with Gore and ORDA , and more to do with the larger economic trends of companies moving into the biggest cities and population loss in small town America.  Amazon HQ moving to DC and Queens says it all.

I do think that as the millennial generation starts wanting to form families there will be a push to reverse this trend.  Employee hungry companies that can't compete with the tech giants on salary and perks will offer WFH options or even start small offices in 2nd and 3rd tier cities.  Those tiny towns in the Hudson Valley are already drawing interest from the mustached latte crowd.  Who knows, maybe when this happens younger people will start skiing again.

D.B. Cooper wrote

That right there is enough reason to be fiscally sound.....so that if you're ever put in that position, you can leave more on your own terms.

...

raisingarizona wrote

If you keep things simple you don’t have to work your life away.

Most people buy too much shit. The American dream can be like a prison sentence.

I definitely agree with you guys, and I try to live my life according to these ideals, but I realize that we are probably not representative of most people in this country.

My brother in law and sister in law have a lot of student loans, credit card debt, leased cars, a small rental house in a bad school district, and a personal loan or two. It's tough out there. You gotta save your money and make good decisions, but even if you do, you might get screwed anyway.

Hey Harv, You gotta move Matt's rants to the politicrap dumping ground, I don't want to have to unload on him about his total BS here.....but I will.

Stowe, VT:
  Population - 2018     4,371
  Population - 2010 4,314
  Population - 2000 4,360
  Population - 1990 3,445
  Pop. 1990 to Now 26.88%

Lake Placid, NY:
  Population - 2018    2,465
  Population - 2010 2,518
  Population - 2000 2,638
  Population - 1990 2,485
  Pop. 1990 to Now -0.81%

Ludlow, VT:
  Population - 2018     1,929
  Population - 2010 2,061
  Population - 2000 2,449
  Population - 1990 2,302
  Pop. 1990 to Now -16.20%

North Conway, NH:
  Population - 2018     2,347
  Population - 2010 2,584
  Population - 2000 2,069
  Population - 1990 2,032
  Pop. 1990 to Now 15.50%

Bethel, ME:
  Population - 2018 2,644
  Population - 2010 2,605
  Population - 2000 2,411
  Population - 1990 2,329
  Pop. 1990 to Now 13.53%

Waitsfield, VT:
  Population - 2018 1,718
  Population - 2010 1,847
  Population - 2000 1,659
  Population - 1990 1,422
  Pop. 1990 to Now 20.82%
 

 

I think consumerism is like an unhealthy coping mechanism. We aren’t satisfied or content with life so we buy the shit our media says we have to in order to fit in and feel good about ourselves. In order to keep this thing going we get jobs we don’t like and spend a huge percentage of our lives doing stuff we’d rather not. Most of the time the fancy items we get are to hide from everyone else how miserable we really are. Keep up with the Jonses and all that. It’s totally insane but we aren’t wired to really be happy (satisfied) either, that would be too unproductive for the survival of the species.

Now what the hell was this thread about again? :D

Orda and NYS have poured tens of millions into both Gore and Belleryre.  That private investors / businesses don’t do likewise is telling you that the demand  and resultant ROI is just not there.  Both are mostly day areas where skiers drive to from Albany / Saratoga and NYC / NJ.  Both are just too close to thier major customer bases to justify overnight stays and the restaurants that go with it.  

Gore probably needs to be marketed to Jersey more to develop that market so that is on Orda marketing braintrust.  It’s never going to happen for Bell.  

I agree, gore should be marketed to the tri-state region. It’s close enough to compete with killington/snow but far enough that you can get em to spend a night or two.

It seems like a no brainer. It looks like a way better mountain than Mt. Snow, Okemo or Stratton.

Again - The lodging needs to come first.

I guess that's the NYS DEC?

Or packages with hotels in Queensbury?   Who btw are very reasonably priced.  

No offense to all of you upstaters but nobody wants to stay 50 minutes away from where they are skiing.  

Have to market existing facilities including attractions to kids (pools, waterslides, etc).  
No hotels will be built in North Creek or even Warrensburg
No hotels will be built at Gore base.
Even if the above happened, there is not the labor force to support.  

So...its marketing, creative ideas, and promoting promoting promoting.   Increased skier visits with a declining skier base is otherwise not going to happen.