The latest ORDA Screwup

The ski bowl tops out at 1900', and already is marginal at keeping snow pack.  I can't imagine buying a condo or house at the bowl would be a good long term investment.  

After thinking about it not sure why an amendment would even be needed to lease the operation of the ski areas
Orda or the state would retain ownership and any upgrades would need to go thru dec and apa review
Orda already leases out the food and other services to an cessionaire
Would probably have to renewable 25 years leases for a fixed annual payment plus some percentage of the gross or net

Who would be against that except for Pratt who would get axed though May the could negotiate a consulting agreement or a sunset clause

Sunapee is exactly the example id look at for this

There is a spot in the constitution that does not allow that to happen and it is pretty clear.  I have no idea how centerplate got in there.

tjf1967 wrote

There is a spot in the constitution that does not allow that to happen and it is pretty clear.  I have no idea how centerplate got in there.

A contractor runs the golf course at the Saratoga State Park. Maybe the adks have different rules? Doesn't Paul Smith's college run the VIC?

Those are off the top of my head. Are there other state owned facilities in the adk run by non-state entities?

The golf course is not in the park and Paul Smith is a NFP. If I had to I could find it but with my limited brain power I need to use it in other areas.

I highly doubt the Muellers would have taken on the operations at Sunapee if they did not have the real estate development end goal.  That was their thing.

TheGreatAbyss wrote

The ski bowl tops out at 1900', and already is marginal at keeping snow pack.  I can't imagine buying a condo or house at the bowl would be a good long term investment.

A real company would have no problem keeping the NC Ski Bowl open with snowmaking. With a real company, the Ski Bowl would already have a real base area. The elevation is not a problem. The Ski Bowl base is a huge positive for Gore that is ignored.

Base elevation in feet
Loon Mtn   950
Gore          1000
Smuggs      1030
Okemo       1135
Sugarbush  1483
Windham    1500
Stowe        1560

There's a difference between the main base area were all skiers filter down to, and condo connecting trails.

A "real" company might look at the economics of maintaining low elevation snow pack for a handful of condo owners in a warmer future world and decide it just isn't worth it.   Better to put that money over 2600' where it will stay longer

The Sunrise trails in Killington are good comparison.  The owners pay for lift operation and I wouldn't be surprised if they paid for snowmaking as well.

tjf1967 wrote

The golf course is not in the park

Say what?

MC2 5678F589 wrote

Benny Profane wrote

Nope, never happen because of RE development restrictions in the park.

Hmmmm....

Benny Profane wrote

Ah, well, here's your problem:

 "Jim started by explaining that the ski area will not exist on a long-term basis without the resort. In his opinion, it can only survive as an amenity to the real estate project."

That business model died along with ASC, the 90s, and the real estate bubble popping. Fatally flawed from the beginning, in 2014.

🤔🤔🤔

Benny Profane wrote

It all started with the ASC vs Vail Corp vs Intrawest competition for the market back in the 90s. The business model for all was based on real estate development, with Otten's ASC taking it to extremes by selling one gigantic time share at mountains all over the place. We all know how that turned out.

🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔

Benny Profane wrote

Nice to see that this isn't a real estate company, and they are re-investing capital into important things.
Weird how they are suddenly bringing back the mogul challenge...

What the hell was that? Are you stalking me or something? "Bring out the Benny file, I have to quote him totally out of context from some other long lost threads to prove some sort of point I can't begin to articulate". Creepy, dude.  Work on that, will ya? I don't even have any idea what I was getting at in those quotes.

Anyway, capitalism has spoken over and over, and RE development won't work at Gore because there's no market. If there was a market, there would be a whole lot more homes near Gore than there are now. There aren't. North Creek is a ghost town in summer and not much to speak of in the winter. Nobody wants to buy there. Another reason that the Tupper develpment is so pathetic. If North Creek is so dead, why would people drive another hour to that?

Benny Profane wrote

 


What the hell was that? Are you stalking me or something? "Bring out the Benny file, I have to quote him totally out of context from some other long lost threads to prove some sort of point I can't begin to articulate". Creepy, dude.  Work on that, will ya? I don't even have any idea what I was getting at in those quotes.

 

Benny Profane wrote

 "Bring out the Benny file, I have to quote him totally out of context from some other long lost threads to prove some sort of point I can't begin to articulate"

Just trying to get you to realize that you've said before that the reason that ski area companies have gotten out of the RE game is because it's a failed model.

Now you say that a ski area company would never touch the NY ski area system because of "RE restrictions in the park".

Which is it?!?!!

You eventually reached the real reason that there is no development in NC, so, baby steps I guess:

Anyway, capitalism has spoken over and over, and RE development won't work at Gore because there's no market

Benny Profane wrote

What the hell was that? Are you stalking me or something? "Bring out the Benny file, I have to quote him totally out of context from some other long lost threads to prove some sort of point I can't begin to articulate". Creepy, dude.

I’ll tell ya, Benny, while you do get used to that after a while.....it never gets any less creepy!

Interesting discussions going on but it seems that this thread has lost it's way.  
I'm  a season pass holder, an ex ORDA employee, an avid, if not great skier, a local and an NYS resident.  That said, I support this thread.  ORDA is another example of piss poor run government.  I want to hear more about their screw ups here.  I will go for my stoke and whatnot on other threads!

Well, if it wan't for Orda, there wouldn't be Gore and Bellayre, and one wonders about Whiteface, so, you know, consider that.

JTG4eva! wrote

Benny Profane wrote

What the hell was that? Are you stalking me or something? "Bring out the Benny file, I have to quote him totally out of context from some other long lost threads to prove some sort of point I can't begin to articulate". Creepy, dude.

I’ll tell ya, Benny, while you do get used to that after a while.....it never gets any less creepy!

He keeps files like that on other people? Freaky. Somebody needs a life.

Mental.

Files, that is.  No doubt MC is a savant.  Well, idiot savant....but savant nonetheless!

What percentage of the issues in this thread could be redirected to APA screwups?

Benny Profane wrote

He keeps files like that on other people? Freaky. Somebody needs a life.

I shouldn't have to say this to someone as prolific as Benny on TGR, but... SEARCH FUNCTION, JONG!!!!

I'm also brilliant, and I have an incredible memory, but that's beside the point.

I'm also very modest & humble.

Benny Profane wrote

Well, if it wan't for Orda, there wouldn't be Gore and Bellayre, and one wonders about Whiteface, so, you know, consider that.

ORDA exists to make sure Lake Placid fills its beds and businesses and to make sure North Creek and Gore never steal customers from Lake Placid.

Whiteface (1958), Gore(1964), and Belleayre(1949) existed long before ORDA came to be in the late 1970s, to support the 1980 Olympics in Lake Placed. ORDA has managed to keep North Creek/Gore off the radar, despite the fact that Gore now offers similar terrain/lifts/snowmaking to Mt Snow, Stratton, and Okemo and is easier to get to from much of the NYC metro area.