Best Colleges for Skiing?

Agreed, if you don't mind being one of almost 17,000 MSU students.  New engineering building opened this month.  At 5,000 feet, doesn't rain in the winter like the east.  Snow can be sketchy at times (like now) but is close so it's easy to get out if you only have a couple of hours. Plenty of students from the Dacks and Vt.

All the skier bros (racers, park rats etc) at my daughter’s public high school in NH are applying to Montana State.  It is one of the schools that must email her twice a week about “not too late to apply! Click here to waive your application fee!”

I looked them up on the college data website:


Weird that they accept 97% of male applicants but only 71% of females.  My guess is the engineering and business departments (traditionally heavy on dudes) are large and their #s don’t cap.

witch hobble wrote

Weird that they accept 97% of male applicants but only 71% of females.  My guess is the engineering and business departments (traditionally heavy on dudes) are large and their #s don’t cap.

My wife is a college professor, and with our 3 kids at college admission age we talk about this a lot.  The fact is that male college applicants are, on the whole, of poorer quality in terms of academics, extracurriculars and personal achievements, than female applicants.  So male applicants, as a group, get admitted at a higher rate in order to keep the admitted class relatively even between the sexes.   As the father of 3 girls, I am somewhat chagrined that they have to work harder than the idiot boys in their class to get admitted to the colleges of their choice.

Petronio

Petronio wrote

witch hobble wrote

Weird that they accept 97% of male applicants but only 71% of females.  My guess is the engineering and business departments (traditionally heavy on dudes) are large and their #s don’t cap.

My wife is a college professor, and with our 3 kids at college admission age we talk about this a lot.  The fact is that male college applicants are, on the whole, of poorer quality in terms of academics, extracurriculars and personal achievements, than female applicants.  So male applicants, as a group, get admitted at a higher rate in order to keep the admitted class relatively even between the sexes.   As the father of 3 girls, I am somewhat chagrined that they have to work harder than the idiot boys in their class to get admitted to the colleges of their choice.

Petronio

Interesting.

The split between male and female for freshman entering UNC-Chapel Hill has been more women for years.  Admissions has been gender-blind for quite a while.  My impression is that SAT/ACT scores are used as a first-cut for the more competitive colleges in the UNC system.  Girls usually score higher as a group, at least the ones who want to apply to Carolina or NC State.  Of course, UNC colleges are mostly for in-state students.

marznc wrote

The split between male and female for freshman entering UNC-Chapel Hill has been more women for years.  Admissions has been gender-blind for quite a while.  My impression is that SAT/ACT scores are used as a first-cut for the more competitive colleges in the UNC system.  Girls usually score higher as a group, at least the ones who want to apply to Carolina or NC State.  Of course, UNC colleges are mostly for in-state students.

Yes, public universities have a harder time discriminating on the basis of gender (i.e., admitting boys at lower quality threshold than girls in order to maintain gender parity in enrolled class) given that there are government due process concerns.  Some of the more prestigious schools have relatively even admission percentages as well.  As with any statistic, there are exceptions and outliers.

Petronio

Keene State is for morons though.

Could imagine the outrage it you put orange people rather than males.  PHEW good thing males have thick skin or they would be playing the gender card.

Petronio wrote

witch hobble wrote

Weird that they accept 97% of male applicants but only 71% of females.  My guess is the engineering and business departments (traditionally heavy on dudes) are large and their #s don’t cap.

My wife is a college professor, and with our 3 kids at college admission age we talk about this a lot.  The fact is that male college applicants are, on the whole, of poorer quality in terms of academics, extracurriculars and personal achievements, than female applicants.  So male applicants, as a group, get admitted at a higher rate in order to keep the admitted class relatively even between the sexes.   As the father of 3 girls, I am somewhat chagrined that they have to work harder than the idiot boys in their class to get admitted to the colleges of their choice.

Petronio

Yes. Very interesting. Father of daughters here too.  At several of the schools my daughter is applying to, they are trying to bring the male/female ratio closer to 50/50 from 70/30 or more male. So there I think they accept more females and also incentivize with more merit $ to females as well.

As for Montana State, I’d bet that far more 18 year old boys from NY, NH, MA, CT, NJ etc think they’re ready to pack up and head west to go to college specifically to be close to wesstern ski areas than do female 18 year olds. And you know the schools want the full pay, out of state applicants, so that might affect numbers a bit.

tjf1967 wrote

Could imagine the outrage it you put orange people rather than males.  PHEW good thing males have thick skin or they would be playing the gender card.

There are some young men without a "thick skin." ;-)

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2018/05/21/yale-being-investigated-discrimination-against-men-unusual-title-ix-complaint

"'Student Wants to 'End Affirmative Action for Women'
The Education Department's Office for Civil Rights will investigate an unusual Title IX complaint that Yale discriminates against men by having certain programs and scholarships for women.
By Jeremy Bauer-Wolf  
May 21, 2018

The U.S. Education Department is investigating whether Yale University discriminates against men, stemming from an unusual complaint from a doctoral student completely unaffiliated with institution.
. . ."

Haha. Plenty of thin-skinned males on display these days!

witch hobble wrote

As for Montana State, I’d bet that far more 18 year old boys from NY, NH, MA, CT, NJ etc think they’re ready to pack up and head west to go to college specifically to be close to wesstern ski areas than do female 18 year olds. And you know the schools want the full pay, out of state applicants, so that might affect numbers a bit.

I wouldn't assume that out-of-state students are paying full tuition to all state colleges.  Some state schools value having geographic diversity enough that they offer scholarship money for qualified out-of-state applicants on a regular basis.  I don't know anything about Montana State.  But when my daughter and I did an admission visit to UVM, they pushed the point that 49 out of 50 states were represented by the current student body.  They have regional admission counselors that makes trips to their region, which includes the southeast where we live.  Conversely, I know UNC-Chapel Hill offers a few full-ride scholarship to top students from New England prep schools.

UVM (and Burlington) is beautiful and desirable and would naturally attract people from all over I would think.

I realize very few people anywhere are truly “full pay”. Foreign students mostly, I think. But at less selective schools and schools in somewhat dire financial straits, think there probably is a tendancy to accept people who fit the profile of of a full payer with a marginal admissions profile.

witch hobble wrote

UVM (and Burlington) is beautiful and desirable and would naturally attract people from all over I would think.

I realize very few people anywhere are truly “full pay”. Foreign students mostly, I think. But at less selective schools and schools in somewhat dire financial straits, think there probably is a tendancy to accept people who fit the profile of of a full payer with a marginal admissions profile.

My impression is that UVM decided a long time again that the only way to build a world-class school was to have enough students to support research and building a bigger campus than Vermont would normally support.  The percentage of out-of-state students is quite high.  The cost is still lower than comparable private colleges in the region.  There were plenty of families from MA and CT attending the admission talk and tour in August.  Agree that the campus and town are nice.

Depending on how cynical you are, could be that stereotypes about whether or not a family is likely to pay full tuition come into play.  Heard from my daughter's prep school College Counselor that there are certainly criteria used that are not talked about when it comes to trying to get a certain balance for whatever reason for the incoming class of freshman.  Could be gender, could be geography, could be ethnic/racial diversity.

All the admission talks we attended emphasized that acceptance decisions were made independent of whether or not an applicant puts in for financial aid.  Supposed to be done by different people.  There is a downside to accepting too many unqualified students because of the hope that they will attend and pay full tuition.  Making sure the graduation rate stays decent is also important.

I'm surprised no one mentioned this.

Men             97% of 7358 applicants were admitted

That's not exactly an exclusive percentage. Like golf, the lower score is better.

I’ve heard the same thing, and I’m sure nobody is sitting down in admissions, making sure to go over your fafsa data before giving a thumbs up or down. But selective schools definitely use the “school profile” of your hs or prep school, which gives them an idea of what to expect. Definitely being “profiled”!

trackbiker wrote

I'm surprised no one mentioned this.

Men             97% of 7358 applicants were admitted

That's not exactly an exclusive percentage. Like golf, the lower score is better.

That’s what we’ve been talkin about. Very large 26 point discrepancy between male and female applicants is unusual.

marznc wrote

witch hobble wrote

As for Montana State, I’d bet that far more 18 year old boys from NY, NH, MA, CT, NJ etc think they’re ready to pack up and head west to go to college specifically to be close to wesstern ski areas than do female 18 year olds. And you know the schools want the full pay, out of state applicants, so that might affect numbers a bit.

I wouldn't assume that out-of-state students are paying full tuition to all state colleges.  Some state schools value having geographic diversity enough that they offer scholarship money for qualified out-of-state applicants on a regular basis.  I don't know anything about Montana State.  But when my daughter and I did an admission visit to UVM, they pushed the point that 49 out of 50 states were represented by the current student body.  They have regional admission counselors that makes trips to their region, which includes the southeast where we live.  Conversely, I know UNC-Chapel Hill offers a few full-ride scholarship to top students from New England prep schools.

Geographic diversity can mean one student.

People living in high cost areas will always have a harder time qualifying for financial aid. State schools love this and it is not hard to figure out. We are in north NJ. Many of my son's friends went to Maryland, Penn State, Delaware, Ohio State and most of them paid the full out of state price. The kids did not like Rutgers. When I would talk to the parents, they would complain, but say at least it did not cost as much as private school. Most of these families had both parents working.

We have family in Ohio. They live in a similar neighborhood, yet they can go with 1 parent working due to the lower cost of housing. When those Ohio cousins apply to big state schools, they almost always get aid.

Penn State main campus cost for in state -  $31,556-34,778
Penn State main campus cost for out of state - $46,784-50,006

You are mistaken if you think those dollar numbers do not affect admissions.

I vote for trade school and become plumber or electrician. Avoid coming out of school in enormous debt (or parents for that matter), make own schedule, don't flatten one's ass out on desk chair, cherry pick jobs and make mucho $$, and don't answer to some incompetent schmuck every day if that's how it all pans out following college graduation. Why blow the big bag for a piece of paper? Only one of our 3 sons actually pursues his major. College is big business and big waste of money IMHO. Flame on. Hone skills while training and learn to deal with the general public and strive for customer satisfaction trough performance and honesty. Done. Oh..and ski where ever one likes. Oh...forgot the main thing...45k to fuel beer drinking for many insane. Better off staying home and drinking for 4 years and only be in 5k debt per year (quick calculation based on modest consumption. Probably way off the mark here, but you get the gist.

And Montana State is cheaper but the discrepancy between in state ($21,000) and out ($37,000) on a % basis is bigger.  And my guess is the University System of Montana doesn’t go out of their way to provide much merit aid to kids from suburban NYC metro. Just a hunch.

Haha. Trade school would probably be the right decision for probably 50% of my daughter’s graduating class. Probably only 5% will go that route though.

I’m of both minds that college is too expensive to not be able to rather directly transition your degree into some sort of early career path, as well as that college should not be thought of strictly as job training.....that the purpose is to expand the mind and that your “skill set” might be augmented with knowledge of history, geography, literature etc.