Gore Conditions (2018 - 2019)

Harvey wrote

I had my first Natty Lite in the parking lot.

Dude, that's not something to brag about, unless you are like 12.  Just sayin'.  

It was my pleasure sharing a Natty with you Harv. And I am a little older than 12.

green light wrote

It was my pleasure sharing a Natty with you Harv. And I am a little older than 12.

Let's do it again soon my friend.

Spoke to the Janitor yesterday afternoon, and we were talking about snowmaking (or the lack thereof) and his quote was this "well it's always a clusterfuck in the early season, but this year it's a total fucking clusterfuck"

Oh, and the Janitor has a reminder, whenever you hear the words "new high efficiency snow guns" just remember that it really means "low snow making capacity"

On a positive note, it's snowing as I type this

Is there any evidence that they have made any snow at all?  

Also, the website says the bar will open Friday, but it was no where near ready last Saturday.

mm

Milo Maltbie wrote

Is there any evidence that they have made any snow at all?  

Also, the website says the bar will open Friday, but it was no where near ready last Saturday.

mm

I can hear the guns from my house now, which just started a day ago. And as for the bar, save your money and go to Beck's, Basil's or The Barking Spider in town.

Why does it seem over the last five years that the snowmaking is worse than say the previous five years?    Take out the variable of crappy weather like the 70 degree Christmas.    Missed opportunities broken equipment or other wat is happening?   Money?  Bad planning?   Bad preparing?   Does it just seem to be issues and we are over sensitive or is there something fundamentally wrong over the last five years?    Resource issues?  

Hoser wrote

Why does it seem over the last five years that the snowmaking is worse than say the previous five years?    Take out the variable of crappy weather like the 70 degree Christmas.    Missed opportunities broken equipment or other wat is happening?   Money?  Bad planning?   Bad preparing?   Does it just seem to be issues and we are over sensitive or is there something fundamentally wrong over the last five years?    Resource issues?

Land guns are being phased out and tower guns suck. Go over to K and you won't see a tower gun in use until later in the season for resurfacing. The problem relates to the fact that ORDA does not want to pay and train good employees, so they keep spending their (note as a taxpayer, OUR) $$ on the useless high efficiency guns that are require much less labor, but yet make much less snow. If you would like to see for yourself the difference of the amount of snow land guns make vs H.E. tower guns, I recommend you take a trip to Killington.
But alas, it's just another example of the ORDA $$ decisions that are made by NYS gov't employees, as opposed to people that actually ski, and an enterprise that actually strives to make a profit instead of just having a job.

Thanks for the comparison ground vs tower. On the other hand WF has been significantly better the last five to seven years.  What equipment do they use?   Does their union have anything that is adding to the positive experience?

It seems as Gore blankets a large number of trails with a thin cover. WF blasts the crap meaning feet on one or two trails then moves on.  Gore must constantly recover.  WF can then expand.   Wonder what K does as these are two very different approaches.  

Hoser wrote

Thanks for the comparison ground vs tower. On the other hand WF has been significantly better the last five to seven years.  What equipment do they use?   Does their union have anything that is adding to the positive experience?

It seems as Gore blankets a large number of trails with a thin cover. WF blasts the crap meaning feet on one or two trails then moves on.  Gore must constantly recover.  WF can then expand.   Wonder what K does as these are two very different approaches.

WF has way less tower guns than Gore.
Union?? LOL
And you are spot on in your thoughts on the way Gore makes snow as opposed to WF, and WF isn't great either, but definitely better.
What does K do different? Simple, they spend money on their PRODUCT, which is SNOW, and most importantly they realize that making an investment in properly TRAINED and PAID employees is the model of good ski business.

Darkside Shaman wrote

WF has way less tower guns than Gore.
Union?? LOL
And you are spot on in your thoughts on the way Gore makes snow as opposed to WF, and WF isn't great either, but definitely better.
What does K do different? Simple, they spend money on their PRODUCT, which is SNOW, and most importantly they realize that making an investment in properly TRAINED and PAID employees is the model of good ski business.

Spot on. Low E guns make crappy snot. K has had the same couple of guys running their operations and snowmaking for a LONG time. They know what they’re doing.

I concur with the super sub par employee compensation package.  All it would take is 15 bucks an hour to start and inclusion in the state benefit and pension plan.  

I also think dorm style employee housing should be built to house a full complement of employees to ensure on time openings post storm.  

Expecting employees to drive from as far away as they do for minimum wage is not realistic.  Often the County is under a storm emergency and people are not suppose to drive.  

So is the cause not snowmaking budget nor infrastructure but rather primarily the inability to obtain and keep qualified employees due to wages and lack of benefits?    If so does the union model work at WF?   I am not for unions don’t get me wrong just trying to drill down on consistently poorer experience at gore the last few years compared to gore previously or other hills.    Now that I wrote that would seems the employee challenges would have been a static factor last decade unless Orda changed the rules.

I am probably wrong, but I don't think there is a union at WF or Gore for snowmakers (or many other personnel).

I think the problem has mainly been employees, although infrastructure wise I'm not sure that's up to par either. I don't know enough either way to say for sure. I know there have been some infrastructure related issues in the past few years (broken pump, busted line, etc.), but those were mainly one-time short term issues.

I will say over many lift conversations through the past few years since I have made Gore my home mountain, that most have thought the main issue with the lack/ineffectiveness of snowmaking at Gore has been due to the inability to retain or hire good employees. Whether or not that is the truth I do not know, but that is the perception most people seem to have based on my lift surveys. Also the questionable decisions on which trails Gore chooses to blow on (such as Hudson last year and then never opening it) make people wonder.

Let me be clear, I love skiing Gore. Now that it is my home mountain though, it is painful early season when there are cold snowmaking windows to see how little snow is being made in comparison to other areas and how slow terrain expansion progresses. Granted Gore does not have the snowmaking firepower of Killington or now Mt. Snow with their new system, it still is painful when there is a week of cold temps to blow 24/7 and snow is only made on one or two trails and that trail doesn't have deep enough cover to last a warm up without patching up later.

Think what you want about climate change, but in general if you can't make snow effectively on the east coast these days your going to have a difficult time staying in operation (outside of MRG or Magic who have cult followings due to their terrain and have more abundant snowfall). If Gore was run privately the way it is by ORDA, not sure it would be in business without the state support.

Having lived in NH for a few years and skiing Cannon the same arguments were often made there since it is also owned and run by the state. However, Cannon did a pretty decent job of making snow and definitely is better run than what I have experienced with Gore over the last few years.

Hoser wrote

Why does it seem over the last five years that the snowmaking is worse than say the previous five years?    Take out the variable of crappy weather like the 70 degree Christmas.    Missed opportunities broken equipment or other wat is happening?   Money?  Bad planning?   Bad preparing?   Does it just seem to be issues and we are over sensitive or is there something fundamentally wrong over the last five years?    Resource issues?

Maybe by making less snow they win environmental awards.

tom

Ha exactly.  Back to original intent of the other thread.    

Unions - I brought that up due the union signs seen at wf last few years.  They aren’t happy.  Think it’s a wf only thing

Hoser wrote

Ha exactly.  Back to original intent of the other thread.    

Unions - I brought that up due the union signs seen at wf last few years.  They aren’t happy.  Think it’s a wf only thing

Those signs were around Gore too.  It's an ORDA thing.

mm

Just saw via Facebook High Peaks chair is opening Friday. Nice surprise. Not sure what trails as they have not yet updated the snow report.

Looks like quite a bit. Darkside and Hullabaloo among the highlights. Straightbrook this weekend too, but interesting no topridge. Wonder if the reported lack of trimming on Uncas played into that.

10 below zero in Johnsburg....frosty out of the gate this year....