The latest ORDA Screwup

*** and Witch.  PS - I quit.  This guy is so clueless even redirection I use on two year olds can't help him.

Cunningstunts wrote

tjf1967 wrote

Here you go putting words in Harvey's mouth. For a man that has done so little you seem to be the authority on everything. Try throttling it down. You don't have to dominate every thread. May be stick to bikes you are good at that.

He once told me that stoke goes above all here.  Perhaps those so expert in skiing should be so wise to heed that.

We gotta identify the problems in order to fix them. End result= more stoke at ORDA venues.

Johnnyonthespot wrote

We gotta identify the problems in order to fix them. End result= more stoke at ORDA venues.

Yeah - great idea.  I'm all for that.  But that's not what this is.  It's a lowlife bitch thread.  Again, look at examples of actual people who made change within the blue line and see what they did.

+1 for not a screwup, at least in my mind....

Much of the talk @ Gore on Saturday was delayed opening due to staffing issues and prepping mtn/lifts for skiing on Sunday. Did they load the lifts early? No....but they were loading right about 8:35a which is roughly 2 hours sooner than many people had speculated.

Thanked every liftie and patroller I saw for getting in to make it happen---they were all genuinely in great spirits. Some even stayed over at the hill.

Cunningstunts wrote

Johnnyonthespot wrote

We gotta identify the problems in order to fix them. End result= more stoke at ORDA venues.

Yeah - great idea.  I'm all for that.  But that's not what this is.  It's a lowlife bitch thread.  Again, look at examples of actual people who made change within the blue line and see what they did.

You like Beta, don't you?

Cunningstunts wrote

.  It's a lowlife bitch thread.  

The four main uses of the internet are streaming, porn, streaming porn, & lowlife bitch threads.

Cunningstunts wrote

Johnnyonthespot wrote

We gotta identify the problems in order to fix them. End result= more stoke at ORDA venues.

Yeah - great idea.  I'm all for that.  But that's not what this is.  It's a lowlife bitch thread.  Again, look at examples of actual people who made change within the blue line and see what they did.

I do not think many people have the $10million needed to change the NYS Constitution in order to get NYS out of the ski business.

Orda is costing the state well more than 10m per yr and turning that loss into a lease would generate significant profit for the state.  It would have to be a package deal though where a Vail or ikon would take all 3 resorts.  

VanHo would endup with DEC which makes sense since the state is starting to use that as a trail head and hub for hiking. It’s probably more valuable for that than for winter use.

ice arena plus convention center I could easily see the Lussi family be interested in buying and or running.

That leaves the jumps for the Town of LP to run

Easy peasy

Z wrote

Orda is costing the state well more than 10m per yr and turning that loss into a lease would generate significant profit for the state.  It would have to be a package deal though where a Vail or ikon would take all 3 resorts.  

VanHo would endup with DEC which makes sense since the state is starting to use that as a trail head and hub for hiking. It’s probably more valuable for that than for winter use.

ice arena plus convention center I could easily see the Lussi family be interested in buying and or running.

That leaves the jumps for the Town of LP to run

Easy peasy

I'm for this plan, and I'm a bleeding heart liberal.

How long of a lease term are you thinking, Coach?

Z wrote

Orda is costing the state well more than 10m per yr and turning that loss into a lease would generate significant profit for the state.  It would have to be a package deal though where a Vail or ikon would take all 3 resorts.  

VanHo would endup with DEC which makes sense since the state is starting to use that as a trail head and hub for hiking. It’s probably more valuable for that than for winter use.

ice arena plus convention center I could easily see the Lussi family be interested in buying and or running.

That leaves the jumps for the Town of LP to run

Easy peasy

Nope, never happen because of RE development restrictions in the park.

I would be bummed if real estate came to Gore.

If the Ski Bowl ever happened I think that would be ok.  But no putting condos in Twister Glade.

In theory I’d be for selling all the ORDA properties but I’m afraid the next day the state would start the process of strangling the resorts to death through fines, slow approvals, overall meddling in their business... twenty years down the road we might end up with no Gore or Whiteface at all.

I think if they leased the ORDA mountains like what was done in NH with Mt. Sunapee that would be the best. Once leased, Sunapee was run really well and the state in the lease specified no on-mountain condo development while allowing for triple peaks to make some major snowmaking and lift upgrades over the years. Granted the west bowl expansion got held up forever, but that had less to do with the fact the mountain was leased and just general opposition of the community in general.

I think looking to Sunapee would be a good model for the state if they ever went down the leasing road. Not saying I'm an expert on how the whole lease with Sunapee in NH worked out, but skiied there quite a bit when I was in college and know quite a few NH taxpayers that were happy with how the lease of the mountain worked out, especially for local businesses. Prior to the lease, I never skied there, but heard from many in the pre-lease days it suffered from lots of state mismanagement similar to what is being said about ORDA.

Interestingly enough, Cannon, which is still owned and run by the state of NH, was very well run when I was living out that way. Have a lot of friends who ski out there and tell me it still is for the most part.

I always saw Cannon and Gore as kind of sister mountains. Lots of glades. State run. No development. Similar amounts of natural snow. Similar vertical.

Z wrote

Orda is costing the state well more than 10m per yr and turning that loss into a lease would generate significant profit for the state.  It would have to be a package deal though where a Vail or ikon would take all 3 resorts.  

VanHo would endup with DEC which makes sense since the state is starting to use that as a trail head and hub for hiking. It’s probably more valuable for that than for winter use.

ice arena plus convention center I could easily see the Lussi family be interested in buying and or running.

That leaves the jumps for the Town of LP to run

Easy peasy

There is no way Lussi would EVER take over the $18,000,000 White Elephant Convention Center. He got that built right next to his property and it cost him nothing and continues to cost him nothing all while deriving huge benefits for his hotel. This is the same guy, who, in an open ORDA board meeting, wanted to shake down Front Street for some cash when Gore was trying to get the already approved and financed Hudson Chair installed in the NC Ski Bowl. He delayed the install for at least 1 month.

Harvey wrote

I would be bummed if real estate came to Gore.

If the Ski Bowl ever happened I think that would be ok.  But no putting condos in Twister Glade.

Front Street owns the ridge up to just about the height of the Hudson chair so you would be OK with Condos on top of Ski Bowl Glades?

No. I can't imagine it would be profitable to build homes on a slope that steep.

I was imagining the homes would be at the bottom like this:

https://nyskiblog.com/directory/ski-development-plans/north-creek-ski-bowl/

Harvey wrote

No. I can't imagine it would be profitable to build homes on a slope that steep.

I was imagining the homes would be at the bottom like this:

https://nyskiblog.com/directory/ski-development-plans/north-creek-ski-bowl/

Yea - that pretty much wipes out the Raymond Brook trail and the bottom of Ski Bowl glade.

Benny Profane wrote

Nope, never happen because of RE development restrictions in the park.

Hmmmm....

Benny Profane wrote

Ah, well, here's your problem:

 "Jim started by explaining that the ski area will not exist on a long-term basis without the resort. In his opinion, it can only survive as an amenity to the real estate project."

That business model died along with ASC, the 90s, and the real estate bubble popping. Fatally flawed from the beginning, in 2014.

🤔🤔🤔

Benny Profane wrote

It all started with the ASC vs Vail Corp vs Intrawest competition for the market back in the 90s. The business model for all was based on real estate development, with Otten's ASC taking it to extremes by selling one gigantic time share at mountains all over the place. We all know how that turned out.

🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔

Benny Profane wrote

Nice to see that this isn't a real estate company, and they are re-investing capital into important things.
Weird how they are suddenly bringing back the mogul challenge...

Harvey wrote

No. I can't imagine it would be profitable to build homes on a slope that steep.

I was imagining the homes would be at the bottom like this:

https://nyskiblog.com/directory/ski-development-plans/north-creek-ski-bowl/

Harvey, Do you know what the status is of the Front Street Development? Lots of homes built? Bought?

I’ve always liked the idea of conservative development at ski area based. Smallish townhomes connected to a town that are pedestrian friendly to cut back on traffic and emissions is a pretty cool concept imo. A place where you can park your car for the holiday and never use it during your stay creating that more simple life style that a lot of us crave can be a huge selling point. Of course, this is rarely the objective as most st ski areas go for more luxury real estate outpricing the majority and reinforcing auto culture.