Coronavirus

The price simply needs to rise to the point where companies are afraid they'll be stuck with unsalable inventory if they don't sell now.  Government has no excess money so they must print or borrow.   As for "here's government money..", it's already happening - the MyPillow guy has already switched production to PPE.  That said, even he needs to cover his costs and I'm guessing he cut a sweet deal (i.e. obscene profits) with the feds.

My point is that no matter how much panic there is to "do something", human beings have yet to find a way to overcome the laws of economics...or physics, or (fill in the blank).  Sadly these laws are immune to human suffering.

These discussions are difficult in times of crisis so I'll leave it alone for now.  Life will be back to normal in short order.

That's capitalism. A huge bill that looks a lot like the opposite just passed with near unanimous support.  In war time, capitalism takes a back seat. In WW2 the army didn't have to bid against the navy for bombs. Those decisions were made strategically.

Holy crap I just saw NBCs interview with the head of the Army Corp of Engineers. What a fucking stud. He was awesome, the guy embodies momentum. Wish they would have called him in a month ago.

My last job was with a defense supplier. The company was allowed to make a certain profit and was audited. (But of course there was a lot of creative accounting). The same could be applied with PPE and ventilators.

LOL

Johnnyonthespot wrote

An update from the NY Times this morning:


After Considering $1 Billion Price Tag for Ventilators, White House Has Second Thoughts
A deal with General Motors and Ventec Life Systems to produce tens of thousands of the critical lifesaving devices seemed imminent. Then the announcement was pulled back.



By David E. Sanger, Maggie Haberman and Zolan Kanno-Youngs
Published March 26, 2020
Updated March 27, 2020, 8:33 a.m. ET


WASHINGTON — The White House had been preparing to reveal on Wednesday a joint venture between General Motors and Ventec Life Systems that would allow for the production of as many as 80,000 desperately needed ventilators to respond to an escalating pandemic when word suddenly came down that the announcement was off.

The decision to cancel the announcement, government officials say, came after the Federal Emergency Management Agency said it needed more time to assess whether the estimated cost was prohibitive. That price tag was more than $1 billion, with several hundred million dollars to be paid upfront to General Motors to retool a car...


Riddle me this: Why is the Art Of The Deal Guy negotiating when he could just use the Defense Procurement Act to require GM and Ford to comply?

mm

Harvey wrote

That's capitalism. A huge bill that looks a lot like the opposite just passed with near unanimous support.  In war time, capitalism takes a back seat. In WW2 the army didn't have to bid against the navy for bombs. Those decisions were made strategically.

Holy crap I just saw NBCs interview with the head of the Army Corp of Engineers. What a fucking stud. He was awesome, the guy embodies momentum. Wish they would have called him in a month ago.

+1000

mm

onscott wrote

The price simply needs to rise to the point where companies are afraid they'll be stuck with unsalable inventory if they don't sell now.  Government has no excess money so they must print or borrow.   As for "here's government money..", it's already happening - the MyPillow guy has already switched production to PPE.  That said, even he needs to cover his costs and I'm guessing he cut a sweet deal (i.e. obscene profits) with the feds.

My point is that no matter how much panic there is to "do something", human beings have yet to find a way to overcome the laws of economics...or physics, or (fill in the blank).  Sadly these laws are immune to human suffering.

The laws of physics and biology are strictly enforced, but the "laws" of economics are really only a simplified model of human behavior, wherein people are self-interested rational actors. In the extreme case, all models break down. Newton's laws of motion are the most successful model ever, but it won't help you understand black holes. Pandemics are the black hole of economics.  

That's why the Defense Procurement Act was written, and why it should be applied back in January. The Federal government could have tamped down the "us versus them" stuff, not just between NYC and Upstate, but also the competition for resources among the states. There is also a lot of industrial use of PPE, and some of the inventory could have been redirected to hospitals. None of that is happening.

mm

My company collected every mask we had and donated them to area hospitals.

Johnnyonthespot wrote

My company collected every mask we had and donated them to area hospitals.

Good on you guys 👍

On a more positive note. This car was coming down the hill toward me the other day. The snow/ice slid up over the windshield, when she braked,  the snow/ice from the roof slid down over the windshield. She barely pulled in to the turning lane at the light. I pulled over and cleaned it all off for her in the middle of the road. It was an elderly couple. She said "bless your heart" or something to that effect. I'm feeling pretty good about it.

Bro, Were you in the Boy Scouts?

I tried, but there was nobody to volunteer so they turned us all away. This was in the 80's right around the time crack hit.

Johnnyonthespot wrote

My company collected every mask we had and donated them to area hospitals.

Good on you, but sometimes volunteerism isn't enough.

My partner is an RN who works in administration in an Upstate hospital. She expects to be reassigned to patient care before this is over. She has no mask now, and was told that only ONE N95 would be issued to her.

Her sister is a purchasing manager working from home for an electronics company on LI. She has THREE N95s.

To some extent this is a nationwide logistics and distribution problem, and only the Federal government has the authority to manage it. There are continuing to waste that opportunity.

mm

Johnnyonthespot wrote

On a more positive note. This car was coming down the hill toward me the other day. The snow/ice slid up over the windshield, when she braked,  the snow/ice from the roof slid down over the windshield. She barely pulled in to the turning lane at the light. I pulled over and cleaned it all off for her in the middle of the road. It was an elderly couple. She said "bless your heart" or something to that effect. I'm feeling pretty good about it.

Good on you again. One upside is that a crisis makes people kinder.

It's like Mr. Rogers said: "Look for the helpers."

mm

Milo Maltbie wrote

Johnnyonthespot wrote

My company collected every mask we had and donated them to area hospitals.

Good on you, but sometimes volunteerism isn't enough.

My partner is an RN who works in administration in an Upstate hospital. She expects to be reassigned to patient care before this is over. She has no mask now, and was told that only ONE N95 would be issued to her.

Her sister is a purchasing manager working from home for an electronics company on LI. She has THREE N95s.

To some extent this is a nationwide logistics and distribution problem, and only the Federal government has the authority to manage it. There are continuing to waste that opportunity.

mm

They are telling nurses to get a week out of one mask. Help is on the way though. Hope it gets here soon enough.

Same, 1 week to a mask. My nurse is ok with that because she wears another mask over her N95.

MM I hope your wife stays safe.

My wife will walk out before she does something without the necessary PPE.

Supplies are going to continue to get worse.

Using your line MM, we're all fucked.

I am very  proud to say that I work with some of these people: Cornell-Cayuga Medical Center sewing masks.

If I could sew a straight line, I would help.  

WP

Nice WP

Danger boy needed a change of scenery so I got the camper opened up and finally ripped out the broken cabinet and counter top. Just what the doctor ordered