Lift Ticket Prices for 14-15

gorgonzola wrote

oh and the poor stressed out kid will probably only get 40-50 days on the snow year, yea sucks to be him!

A high % of those days better be at GP

Holy OFF THE RAILs.

campgottagopee wrote

gorgonzola wrote

oh and the poor stressed out kid will probably only get 40-50 days on the snow year, yea sucks to be him!

A high % of those days better be at GP

  let's hope so! last winter in the peeyay snow belt made it too hard to justify leaving so we didn't have too many days up there!

snoloco wrote

I would say that Stowe will break the 100 dollar barrier this year.

Posted at $103.

I knew they would do it.

Holy crap I can't believe I just read all 15 pages. It better snow soon!

PeeTex wrote

It's expensive. It's always been expensive.

 There used to be a ton of local hills where tickets could be had for cheaper. The industry more and more has become one that just caters to rich people. It's disgusting

To me, that's an indication of America's affluence. A large middle class % has considerable money to spend. Think about it, everything costs hundreds of dollars, Disney, Six Flags, NFL, NBA... all kinds of stuff across the Nation. Yet most of it is booked solid, so to speak. Few of them hurting for business. All of them making big bucks.

Most of us live better than our parents did.

But yea, high dollar lift tickets suck.

Snowballs wrote

But yea, high dollar lift tickets suck.

Compare the price of a lift ticket to a gallon of gas, Sure - I paid $18 at Alta when gas was $1/gallon, this year it's $84 and gas has been banging around $3.50 to $3.85. Same goes for the cheap airline ticket, I would be able to get out to SLC for $115 each way, now it's close to $400. I believe that insurance due to stupid litigations has also had an effect of raising prices beyond typical inflation indicators.

The issue is that if you are flipp'n burgers at Micky Ds, your screwed. If you want your compensation to track the price of lift tickets, get in a program where your lift ticket is part of your compensation. Ski Instructor, Mountain Host, or for that matter stuffing butts into chairs. Do what Tbatt does and work on the wait staff of a western resort. BTW - I read some where that Alta was $8 in 1978.

Snowballs wrote

Most of us live better than our parents did.

Not us. Not complaining by any stretch.  Both of my folks have pensions and 401ks and are doing quite nicely.  This will definitely be the first gen in our family where the above isn't true.

I see the luxurification (hey I know that's not a word) of skiing as structural/fixed cost thing.  

My theory:

For years everyone was saying WHY are the US autocompanies so unresponsive producing huge vehicles when small efficient cars are selling.  The reality was the US companies had to bake $5000 in healthcare and retirement cost into every car, that Toyota and Honda etc didn't have. Do you try sell a Civic equivalent for $5000 more than a Civic or produce an F150 that while harder to sell than a Civic on the coasts was at least profitable.

On the east coast at least the cost of snowmaking and energy is high. It drives up ticket prices and almost forces the mountains to produce some kind of luxury experience.  In 1934 Gore didn't open until the first week in March due to lack of snow. Who would accept that now? You can't compete without snowmaking.

Alta and Inflation: they used to say money "doubles every ten years."  If true:

1978 - $8
1988 - $16
1998 - $32
2008 - $64
2018 - $128

Harvey wrote

Snowballs wrote

Most of us live better than our parents did.

Not us. Not complaining by any stretch.  Both of my folks have pensions and 401ks and are doing quite nicely.  This will definitely be the first gen in our family where the above isn't true.

I see the luxurification (hey I know that's not a word) of skiing as structural/fixed cost thing.  

My theory:

For years everyone was saying WHY are the US autocompanies so unresponsive producing huge vehicles when small efficient cars are selling.  The reality was the US companies had to bake $5000 in healthcare and retirement cost into every car, that Toyota and Honda etc didn't have. Do you try sell a Civic equivalent for $5000 more than a Civic or produce an F150 that while harder to sell than a Civic on the coasts was at least profitable.

On the east coast at least the cost of snowmaking and energy is high. It drives up ticket prices and almost forces the mountains to produce some kind of luxury experience.  In 1934 Gore didn't open until the first week in March due to lack of snow. Who would accept that now? You can't compete without snowmaking.

Alta and Inflation: they used to say money "doubles every ten years."  If true:

1978 - $8
1988 - $16
1998 - $32
2008 - $64
2018 - $128

You are absolutely right. The statistics show that the latest generations are loosing ground.
My kids and grand kids are in for a tough time. I'll be dead (and some probably wish that was sooner rather than later).

The price of lift tickets is set by the market, you are either in or you're out, end of discussion.

Yeah no complaining unless you're a communist

Harvey wrote

Alta and Inflation: they used to say money "doubles every ten years."  If true:

1978 - $8
1988 - $16
1998 - $32
2008 - $64
2018 - $128

I think that was said about investing, also know as the Rule of 72.  If your investment rate (e.g., an interest rate on compounded savings account) is 7%, your savings will double in 10 years.  If your interest rate is 9%, it will double in 8 years.

The rise in prices has to be looked at in terms of currency inflation (i.e., how many of yesterday's dollars do I need to buy the same good or services today) as well as any real increase in prices (whether due to additional costs or increased market power of the seller).

I found a website that has historical Killington prices back to 1996:

http://snowdaze.com/killington-historical-snowfall

  In 1996 a weekend day lift ticket cost $49.  For the current season, a Killington weekend/peak ticket costs $92.  That is almost double in absolute dollars.  But in constant 1996 dollars, it is only about 24% higher.  (Use the US BLS calculator to determine what $92 in 2014 would buy in 1996:

http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl)

So current peak prices at Killington are as if they raised the $49 price in 1996 to $61.  A better sense (since we all have a better sense of the dollar value today), if they raised last year's peak daily lift ticket price of $89 to $110 for this season.  

"Only about 24% higher" is still substantially more expensive, of course.  Harv, I think you are correct in that there are greater COGS for the ski hills today -- it costs them more to produce their product and to compete effectively.  I also think someone mentioned the demise of local hills; that probably plays a part as well.

Petronio

<math edited>

Thacheronix wrote

Yeah no complaining unless you're a communist

yeah just let the rich take everything and bring back slavery and end all social programs/40 hr work week/medicare/social security/obamacare/laws requing an emergency room to take care of people/worker safety laws ect. ect.
 
Just let the market sort it all out. It's working wonderful in places like nyc. Really great affordable housing for everyone. Also find it hilarious billionaires talking about free market, but then having a salary cap for pro athletes for cost certainty. LOL!

I'm somebody who believes in income equality. The idea of a purely "free market" is laughable. You have your haves and have nots. Period. A mix of capitalism with regulation and basic socialist reforms like overtime pay is needed or the rich will destroy the poor's quality of life and take everything. I'ts human nature unfortunately. To not see this is to be blind. The market is controlled by the people at the top. Don't kid yourself. With no basic safety nets in place for the workers, it would be horrific. We used to have slavery. At least then you had to feed the slaves.

Petronio wrote

Harvey wrote

Alta and Inflation: they used to say money "doubles every ten years."  If true:

1978 - $8
1988 - $16
1998 - $32
2008 - $64
2018 - $128

I think that was said about investing, also know as the Rule of 72.  If your investment rate (e.g., an interest rate on compounded savings account) is 7%, your savings will double in 10 years.  If your interest rate is 9%, it will double in 8 years.

The rise in prices has to be looked at in terms of currency inflation (i.e., how many of yesterday's dollars do I need to buy the same good or services today) as well as any real increase in prices (whether due to additional costs or increased market power of the seller).

I found a website that has historical Killington prices back to 1996:

http://snowdaze.com/killington-historical-snowfall

  In 1996 a weekend day lift ticket cost $49.  For the current season, a Killington weekend/peak ticket costs $92.  That is almost double in absolute dollars.  But in constant 1996 dollars, it is only about 24% higher.  (Use the US BLS calculator to determine what $92 in 2014 would buy in 1996:

http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl)

So current peak prices at Killington are as if they raised the $49 price in 1996 to $61.  A better sense (since we all have a better sense of the dollar value today), if they raised last year's peak daily lift ticket price of $89 to $110 for this season.  

"Only about 24% higher" is still substantially more expensive, of course.  Harv, I think you are correct in that there are greater COGS for the ski hills today -- it costs them more to produce their product and to compete effectively.  I also think someone mentioned the demise of local hills; that probably plays a part as well.

Petronio

<math edited>

Wages of low income earners hasn't even kept up with inflation while cost of rent in most areas has greatly exceeded inflation. I still can't figure out why a pro baseball player makes 30 million a year while a nyc nurse makes 50k after taxes. Just another example of the "free market" at work.

One of the reasons is costs ski areas more to offer their product is that they have decided to market towards the rich and forget everyone else. So they need to add all kinds of luxuries for that market. Mt snow just added a 6 pack bubble lift that costs over 10 million! The people their marketing to would rather pay an extra 10 bucks for a lift ticket and have a bubble lift then pay 10 less and not have one. Those aren't exact figures, but you get my point. The customers pay for that fancy lift obviously. What was wrong with mt snow's lifts? Nothing, but a 6 pack bubble is pampering. Look at the hermitage club as an example of extreme pampering. They could have easily put one lift to the top and relied on mostly natural snow and charged a fraction of what mt snow charges if it's run correctly. Going to get rich? No, but make a profit for sure if it's run correctly. Look at snow ridge as an example of a ski area that can offer affordable lift tickets still. Almost all of VT is obscenely overpriced for rich gapers from big ec cities. That's reality.

Skiing has always been expensive, but it's gotten much worse in recent times.

Wasn't actually kidding, but I'm probably the closest thing you'll get to skier commie. How do you make a living PowderAssassin

Like I said earlier, the ski industry is a free market.  That is what determines ticket prices.  They will charge whatever people are willing to pay, and the mountains that cater to so called "rich people" sure aren't hurting for business.  Stratton charges at least $92 for a weekend adult ticket.  When my dad and I went last February, we were not expecting it to be cheap.  We also were not expecting it to cost 172 dollars to ski for a day.  What did we do when we figured out the price?  WE PAID IT AND SHUT UP, we did not get all over the internet forums and condemn the industry.  We were actually very pleased with the experience at Stratton and will most definitely return at some time although we will probably try to find a better deal for tickets.  However, if we couldn't find a better deal, it would most likely not stop us from going.  When will people realize that skiing is a business and not a government social program?  Instead of condemning the ski industry for pricing some people out, we should be glad the we have the means to afford to ski.  We should also be glad that the resorts are catering to upper class people because they bring in improvement/expansion money.  I'm sure that the evil "rich people" contributed quite a bit of money into Stratton's amazing lift system.  If they didn't cater to them, than the lifts wouldn't be as good.  Also, Gore's new lift probably was paid for by "rich people" in a good percentage.  Want more fancy new high speed lifts, better snowmaking and grooming, and expansions?  Then stop complaining about "rich people" and be glad that they contribute a lot of money to the mountains for these improvements.  The mountains that cater to what people want will succeed, those who don't end up on NELSAP.org.  That site is every ski area manager's worst nightmare.  If people want a luxury experience, that is what they will provide.  Don't like it?  Find another sport.  I am mostly focused on the skiing and don't really care much about the rest, but I do like the facilities and infrastructure to be in decent shape and do not want something that is old and run down.  So using Gore as an example, I would like to see every lift in similar shape to their newer lifts.  Something like the High Peaks Chair or the old Adirondack Express is not acceptable.  Would I like to see more high speed lifts?  Yes I would, but most of Gore's infrastructure is in good shape and I like that.  Do I ask for all heated bubble lifts?  No, but I am certainly not against putting one in even though a regular high speed lift would do me just fine.

snoloco wrote

Like I said earlier, the ski industry is a free market.  That is what determines ticket prices.  They will charge whatever people are willing to pay, and the mountains that cater to so called "rich people" sure aren't hurting for business.  Stratton charges at least $92 for a weekend adult ticket.  When my dad and I went last February, we were not expecting it to be cheap.  We also were not expecting it to cost 172 dollars to ski for a day.  What did we do when we figured out the price?  WE PAID IT AND SHUT UP, we did not get all over the internet forums and condemn the industry.  We were actually very pleased with the experience at Stratton and will most definitely return at some time although we will probably try to find a better deal for tickets.  However, if we couldn't find a better deal, it would most likely not stop us from going.  When will people realize that skiing is a business and not a government social program?  Instead of condemning the ski industry for pricing some people out, we should be glad the we have the means to afford to ski.  We should also be glad that the resorts are catering to upper class people because they bring in improvement/expansion money.  I'm sure that the evil "rich people" contributed quite a bit of money into Stratton's amazing lift system.  If they didn't cater to them, than the lifts wouldn't be as good.  Also, Gore's new lift probably was paid for by "rich people" in a good percentage.  Want more fancy new high speed lifts, better snowmaking and grooming, and expansions?  Then stop complaining about "rich people" and be glad that they contribute a lot of money to the mountains for these improvements.  The mountains that cater to what people want will succeed, those who don't end up on NELSAP.org.  That site is every ski area manager's worst nightmare.  If people want a luxury experience, that is what they will provide.  Don't like it?  Find another sport.  I am mostly focused on the skiing and don't really care much about the rest, but I do like the facilities and infrastructure to be in decent shape and do not want something that is old and run down.  So using Gore as an example, I would like to see every lift in similar shape to their newer lifts.  Something like the High Peaks Chair or the old Adirondack Express is not acceptable.  Would I like to see more high speed lifts?  Yes I would, but most of Gore's infrastructure is in good shape and I like that.  Do I ask for all heated bubble lifts?  No, but I am certainly not against putting one in even though a regular high speed lift would do me just fine.

LOL at this complete arrogant nonsense right wing rant. Can't even bother replying in depth. I don't want to find another sport. Those mountains won't be getting my money though.  So one less customer. I honestly hope they all fold . If it were only 1 or two mountains catering to the rich I wouldn't say that, but it's quickly spreading like a plague. Sort of like housing apartment rentals in much of the country. Only interested in renting to people with as much money as possible. MORAL DECLINE.

 They offer a garbage ice product for people with money to burn. If I had money, I'd NEVER buy a condo at one of those shithole way too cold with no snow and shitty terrain with no real backcontry ec gaper resorts like killington/mt snow/stratton ect ect.  Plenty of ski areas have been able to make a go at it while charging lift tickets/season passes that normal lower and middle class hard working folk can afford.

Sno, just don't engage.  He's trying to bait you.

Petronio