ORDA's operating loss increases year over year

Harv - Is there going to be a link on Facebook to this thread? I would think not.

That was beautiful man!

ScottyJack wrote

Thacheronix wrote

Harvey wrote

Whiteface, Gore and Bell. It's state land. Because it's state land it will never be developed the way a private resort would be.  These mountains have to be subsidized to maintain infrastructure.  They will never pull in enough gate to replace a lift and groomer every five years.

Isn't this a less confrontational version of what Benny said?

No it isn't.  And it's also inaccurate.  Whiteface and Gore do regularly turn profits but the other venues consistently hemorrhage.    Hence the overall loss.

And the Benny fellow made a blanket insult that everyone upstate is poor, lives in trailer parks and depends on his 138K tax revenue plus his trust fund annuities to survive.    He then also claimed it was ok that gov’t fixed infrastructure like bridges in the city because they change tolls and he gets laid at the Jersey shore. (I do not believe that for a minute).  

So no, it is not even close to Penny’s statement.

+1,000,000

ScottyJack wrote

  Whiteface and Gore do regularly turn profits
 

…….sigh.

Benny Profane wrote

…….sigh.

TWSS!  

ScottyJack wrote

No it isn't.  And it's also inaccurate.  Whiteface and Gore do regularly turn profits but the other venues consistently hemorrhage.    Hence the overall loss.

There are many reasons for operating loss...bad snow year, just taking over new venue....etc etc.  The other venues don't "hemorrhage"...you people don't understand the MISSION of ORDA..ORDA includes all venues.  And they operate them quite successfully considering how difficult the task. In fact ORDA has worked very hard to try and create year round programs at all venues to increase revenue. ORDA isn't Whiteface...they aren't splitting up.  It isn't just a ski resort. So get the EFF over it!  

The constant return to this is SOOOOOO annoying!

Here is the legislative mandate:
1.
 Institute a comprehensive, coordinated program of activities utilizing the Olympic facilities, Gore Mountain, and Belleayre Mountain, in and around Lake Placid, North Creek, and Highmount, New York, in order to insure optimum year-round use and enjoyment of these facilities to the economic and social benefit of the regions and to minimize the financial burden on state and local government by maximizing revenue opportunities.
2. Improve the physical fitness and recreational education of the people of New York and the United States.
3.Develop, implement and supervise a comprehensive, coordinated program for the management, promotion and scheduling of a wide range of national and international athletic training and competitive opportunities that maximize the utilization of the Olympic facilities.
4.Develop, construct, operate, manage and maintain facilities for the training and housing of amateur athletes in connection with the United States Olympic Committee's training center program and ORDA's conduct of national and international sports events.

READ IT...LEARN IT...and then Shut to EFF up about it!

Pants wrote

ScottyJack wrote

No it isn't.  And it's also inaccurate.  Whiteface and Gore do regularly turn profits but the other venues consistently hemorrhage.    Hence the overall loss.

There are many reasons for operating loss...bad snow year, just taking over new venue....etc etc.  The other venues don't "hemorrhage"...you people don't understand the MISSION of ORDA..ORDA includes all venues.  And they operate them quite successfully considering how difficult the task. In fact ORDA has worked very hard to try and create year round programs at all venues to increase revenue. ORDA isn't Whiteface...they aren't splitting up.  It isn't just a ski resort. So get the EFF over it!  

The constant return to this is SOOOOOO annoying!

Here is the legislative mandate:
1.
 Institute a comprehensive, coordinated program of activities utilizing the Olympic facilities, Gore Mountain, and Belleayre Mountain, in and around Lake Placid, North Creek, and Highmount, New York, in order to insure optimum year-round use and enjoyment of these facilities to the economic and social benefit of the regions and to minimize the financial burden on state and local government by maximizing revenue opportunities.
2. Improve the physical fitness and recreational education of the people of New York and the United States.
3.Develop, implement and supervise a comprehensive, coordinated program for the management, promotion and scheduling of a wide range of national and international athletic training and competitive opportunities that maximize the utilization of the Olympic facilities.
4.Develop, construct, operate, manage and maintain facilities for the training and housing of amateur athletes in connection with the United States Olympic Committee's training center program and ORDA's conduct of national and international sports events.

READ IT...LEARN IT...and then Shut to EFF up about it!

Gore has only recently been open for activities during the summer. While WF has had an amazing bike program for many years, Gore's program comes and goes.

Harvey wrote

What was the operating loss? I didn't even read the article. I bet no matter what it is, it's a reasonable amount to pay for the commerce skiing creates.

It doesn’t even matter what the loss amount is. It’s a meaningless 7-month result, April-October.  The vast majority of ORDA’s revenue is generated in the other 5 months of the year.  We should really be having this discussion  (without the other stupidity that now permeates this thread) when the full year results are in.

ScottyJack wrote

And it's also inaccurate.  Whiteface and Gore do regularly turn profits but the other venues consistently hemorrhage.    Hence the overall loss.

While that ^^ seems to be a commonly held belief, are there any hard facts to support that statement?  If so, please provide a link SJ.  As far as I know, the only factual data available are ORDA’s annual report and audited financial statements, here, which do not provide profitability by venue (revenue is broken out by venue, but not expenses).  Isn’t it possible that all of the venues, including Gore and WF, operate at a loss?

Are there any GAAP compliant P/L statements (I'm not an accountant so that may not be artfully expressed) available for Gore and WF individually?  Perhaps they wouldn't end the discussion (for everyone anyway) but they'd be a good starting point.

Adk Jeff wrote

  Isn’t it possible that all of the venues, including Gore and WF, operate at a loss?

Hell no. Why does this keep popping up ? It's absolutely ridiculous ! What is wrong with you people ? Talk about wearing blinders just because you ski there......

LOOK.... Neither Gore nor Whiteface ever had to pay for their property, it's buildings or infrastructure. NO MORTGAGE PAYMENT EVER!

Neither has to pay any Fed or State income tax. NONE!

Neither has to pay ANY taxes what so ever. NONE!

Neither has to pay for ANY capital improvements. NONE!

Both get discounted vehicles and fuel.

On and On and On.

YET BOTH charge as much as the high price private areas.

Private areas all have to pay these huge costs and yet they make money. How can anybody with a lick of common sense speculate whether Gore/WF turns a profit ?

Despite all these HUGE cost saving benefits you people keep speculating  " Oh gee, I wonder if they're making money " "You can't expect a state mtn to make money " or...

Harvey wrote

On Topic:  These mountains have to be subsidized to maintain infrastructure.

Completely and utterly ridiculous and stupid. Yea stupid !

Private mtns pay taxes, mortages, etc AND pay for their own improvements AND they make a tidy profit !

So, all these huge cost savings and the state/n.elba kick in another 5 mill...... and Orda operates at a loss or bare bones profit ?

OMG!!!  What a bunch of boob bait for the bubbas. Kool-Aid for the kiddies. Unfriggin real.

It's a State Agency. State Agencies are very well known for dishonesty and corruption.

Please Snowballs... Benny paid you from his $138K to say that.

Oh yea. no doubt the US Olympic committee also kicks in money to ORDA and the programs up there. Plus there's many corporate sponsorships.

Just some facts. Refute them or move on or drink the kool aid.

What are we suppsoed to refute.  The only i got out of your post is that your not happy with something.  I wont refute that.

That post is so silly.  How do you know they don't pay for infrastructure improvements?  If those expenses are put on their line than they may well have "paid" for them from an accounting perspective even if the actual funds originated from general revenue.  But that's true for any organization. I don't know that WF (or Gore) even have a "line".    Is there a separate Whiteface (or Gore) P and L statement?  I dunno.  I'll bet you don't either.

I think it's hilarious that those of you who pretty obviously know the least about how this stuff is accounted for (and maybe about accounting in general) seem to have the strongest opinions about it.  I think some of you should show a little more humility; there are limits to what most of us (myself included) know and understand about this and I think  we're now well beyond those limits.  But the first step is acknowledging what you don't know.  When you don't know what you don't know (ie: snowballs) you are in the profoundest state of ignorance in which you can find yourself wallowing.  Knowing what you don't know is often significantly less ignorant than not knowing what you don't know.  In both cases you don't know stuff but at least in the case of the former you're aware of it and can tailor your opinions and conclusions accordingly.  In the latter case you often make a fool of yourself.   Like snowballs just did.

Snowballs wrote

Oh yea. no doubt the US Olympic committee also kicks in money to ORDA and the programs up there. Plus there's many corporate sponsorships.

So what?

Noah John wrote

 That post is so silly.  How do you know they don't pay for infrastructure improvements?

 

It's common knowledge silly. Ya see, it's been well covered by the media when the state grants them money for projects, BR, Lookout, etc.

Got it?

Noah John wrote

Snowballs wrote

Oh yea. no doubt the US Olympic committee also kicks in money to ORDA and the programs up there. Plus there's many corporate sponsorships.

So what?

So it's more income. That effects the bottom line WHICH effects whether there's a profit or not.

Got it?

So you think when the state appropriates money for, say, snowmaking infrastructure on Hoyt's High, that appropriation is never accounted for in a P and L statement (or the like) for Whiteface or ORDA?  Source please.

Of course I do but so what?  This is like playing whack-a-mole but with a lot less effort required.  (And you really should learn the difference between "effect" and "affect".  You've apparently mastered the intricacies of state and local finance but eighth grade English fundamentals continue to allude you.)